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-   -   Anybody concerned about Crude prices yet? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=22509)

az_gila 10-17-2007 10:04 AM

Actions don't follow words in England...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shiney (Post 162726)
I know it's a paradox but in a way high oil prices are a good thing. I thinnk this because here in the UK (and in europe) it has started to concentrate minds on alternative fuels and this is gathering huge momentum.

The governments of the west now recognise the importance of moving away from oil as their main source of engery, for no other reason than it is no longer (was it ever?) a secure source. At last there are political demands (and thefore market demands) for alternative fuel sources so the commercial companies will get their act together and pour R&D money in bucket loads and the results will come.

In the short to medium term oil prices will remain high, but once those oil producing nations realise that their customers have gone elsewhere market forces will dictate that oil prices will have to at least match alternative energy sources.

I predict that within the next fifteen years in Europe more than 70% of cars will be running on hybrid and alternative energy sources! And now in the UK even the "ecos" think the buildign of new nuclear power stations is at least worth debating! I don't really think that the west will allow this (oil) gun to be held to its head for much longer!

Just my take on things. now I'm going to get back to building my seats!:)


Martin

Martin... that's not my observation from two trips to Liverpool to see family that were 3 years apart.

It was very obvious to me that over that short period the sales of larger vehicles (would be called SUVs and minivans in the US - not sure of the English term - "people carriers"?) had grown drastically.

This is in spite of the size of the roads, and the extra width of these larger vehicles... even my vegetarian, peace-loving, US-hating niece, with one small kid, liked the Nissan 4x4 her ex bought "because it's easier to put the baby stuff in the back". Residential areas where I was born are even more crowded with these SUVs/minivans - even with the local habit of parking half on the street and half on the sidewalk (pavement in English terminology) - driving down the street was a slow process, with the extra parked vehicles making passage almost one-way.

This was noticeable even over the short span of 3 years. The governments may have noticed it, but the people haven't...

I heard lots of "green" talk in England, but the new traffic on the road showed it was not being followed by the car buying public...:)

Heck - while I was there, even the terrorists at Glasgow airport used a Jeep Cherokee...:eek:

gil A

Bob Axsom 10-17-2007 10:09 AM

The Price of crude oil has no effect on my flying
 
I do not do any frivolous flying and when I fly there is a purpose. I am never just sitting around watching TV and say "I'm bored - I think I'll go out and do some pattern work or air work."

In my working life I worked in intimate closeness with briliant scientists and they are often wrong. Some of the "cures" can create greater problems than we can imagine when listening to the flowery well structured proposals. For example using a food source to produce fuel has some basic flaws.

Bob Axsom

586RG 10-17-2007 10:36 AM

Maybe I'm an aviation exception, but I sold my 2004 Mooney Ovation and downsized to the more efficient RV6 mainly due to the cost of avgas, which went from $2.10 at purchase to $4.80. It got to the point where even short trips weren't cost effective, especially when factoring in insurance, $100 per hour repairs (Mooney Service Center rates) and depreciation. The gas alone was costing more than a commercial flight.
The RV6 is a plane I feel that I can maintain even after I retire, years down the road. Another benefit is that it is fun to just go out and bore holes in the sky again, or take people for joyrides.

shiney 10-17-2007 10:48 AM

Yes Gil, you're right about the SUV's, but that was (is) a fad. Things are changing here and people running around in four x fours to the school run are considered lepers, in time they will disappear. The only ones who haven't quite got it are the footballers wives and what can we expect from that lot anyway?! It will take time but believe me, there is an unstoppable momentum now gathering here now and like I said, it will concentrate minds.

Of course the British are a car buying public and I'm not saying that people will stop buying cars, what I am saying is that in the future those cars will run on alternative fuels. Now congestion and parking is another matter but the car in Britain is here to stay, of that I have no doubt.

Next time you are here in the UK, come across (70 miles) to visit me in York, we still have parking problems and congestion problems but on a much more manageable rate, it's much less crowded here than west of England.

And as for those Glasgow bombers, good job it was a Jeep otherwise they might have succeeded :)

Martin

az_gila 10-17-2007 02:42 PM

York
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shiney (Post 162759)
....

Next time you are here in the UK, come across (70 miles) to visit me in York, we still have parking problems and congestion problems but on a much more manageable rate, it's much less crowded here than west of England.
.....
Martin

Missed you this time... we always go to York... my cousin runs the Hazelwood B&B there.

What was funny this time was the fact that the train ticket from Liverpool to York was more than the airfare from Liverpool to Basel (Basle?), Switzerland on EasyJet....:)

Europe still is using market pricing for energy usage....:)

gil A

shiney 10-17-2007 03:11 PM

It might take longer but I think it would be even cheaper if you took the flight to Basel, then the train to Rotterdam, ferry from there to Hull and taxi from Hull to York than the train fare from Liverpool to York! Some things are a bit behind market forces at the moment but I'm working on it! :)

Next time give me a call.

Martin

LettersFromFlyoverCountry 10-17-2007 03:55 PM

I think the overall problem isn't that Americans are this or that; it's just that we like to blame everyone else for our problems, so we ignore what we -- as individuals -- can contribute to the solutions.

No matter what kind of vehicle you drive...little putter to big SUV, you can still use less gas this month than last and if you're a believer in any form in the law of supply and demand, the price will come down.

Heck, I learn a lot from flying by getting all that weight out of my trunk I don't need.

I was watching The War a few weeks ago. I enjoyed it very much but couldn't help but think, we'd never be able to sacrifice like my parents' generation again. And I think one reason they did, is because they got used to doing so during the Depression.

Anyway, I always kinda mutter to myself when cars go whizzing by (which means I'm muttering all the time) because I just KNOW the people in those cars have kvetched about the high price of gasoline.

I honestly don't know, given our need for oil and a foreign policy that is built around that need, why doing what one can to use less of it is never seen as a moral imperative, but gets stuck instead, in some political b.s. discussion.

It'd be cool if one day we could wake up and say to the oil producing despots, "keep it. We don't need it anymore."

SvingenB 10-17-2007 05:18 PM

The problem isn't lack of energy. There will not be any lack of energy now, or in the future. Nuclear power will gradually phase out fossil fuels, there simply is no other way to produce enough energy and decrease CO2 emissions.

The problem is the transport sector, shipping and aviation mainly. Today there is no viable alternative for liquid fossil fuel. To use food stuff to produce fuel when millions of kids perish each year due to starving is just plain wrong. I mean, "sorry kids, you cannot have those fishes, I need the oil in them for my green biodiesel SUV, so I can save the planet for the next generation".

I think the price of liquid fossil fuel will just continue to increase because there are no alternative, and we will pay whatever it cost because there are no real substitute for the car. Sure, we can use smaller cars, more fuel efficient cars, but that doesn't effect the price of fossil fuel, because the demand is still there for shipping, aviation and land transport. I have read that much more fossil fuel is used in producing a car than the car will ever use by driving it. So by purchasing a new fuel efficient car when your old car still is OK actually will increase the demand of fossil fuel.

So, it is much better to just let the car rust away and fly a hand made homebuilt RV :) No fossil fuel in that production, only some very modest amounts of watered out bio-ethanol from time to time :)

RV6_flyer 10-17-2007 07:11 PM

Peak Oil
 
Do a Google for "peak oil".

IMHO, if we are not there, we will be soon.

I purchased a 9-year old VW TDI in May. It now has over 230,000 miles on it. I get over 50 mpg on the highway and 44 running around to and from work. (11-mile drive.) My 2003 GMC Sonoma gets 21 MPG. The diesel is more expensive per gallon but I am spending about 1/3 on fuel for driving as I was and am driving more. I also enjoy driving the VW TDI 5-speed as much as I do flying my RV.

On the rear bumper, I have a bumper sticker shaped like a large AA battery. Inside says: "50 MPG. Batteries Not Required".

Back in 1994 / 1995, I was in Japan paying $5.40 per gallon of gas. I was purchasing gas by the liter and paying in Yen but the conversion to gallons and dollars was $5.40.

On my trip to AirVenture 2007, I asked myself would I still be flying to AirVenture if I was paying $10 per gallon of AvGAS? My answer was YES. At that price, I will more than likely still fly but I will not fly as much.

asav8tor 10-17-2007 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer (Post 162928)
I asked myself would I still be flying to AirVenture if I was paying $10 per gallon of AvGAS? My answer was YES. At that price, I will more than likely still fly but I will not fly as much.


Music to Exxon Mobil ears.


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