Whirlwind Props; Opinions Please
 

Am ready to make prop purchase for my 6a w/ 0360 / constant speed setup /
was looking Hartzell and have recently researched the Whirlwind 200RV. A bit more money but a terrific weight savings, better climb and cruise and no RPM restrictions. Who has and what do you think. Thanks

Is weight that important?
 

The Whirlwind may have no published restriction because it has not been tested, but composites are less prone to harmonics than metal. I do believe they have some cover their tail words about not using electronic ignition.

Does not make metal bad but it has to be tested. The good news is the BA prop has been tested and has no restrictions if you are running magnetos. RPM restrictions that do exist say with electronic ignition are small and non-issues.

If you don't have it here is the restrictions for the hartzell, not the BA prop (with 7497 blade) and the O360, no restriction (click).



If you are running electronic ignition or the -7496 BA blade you have two very specific and really non-issue RPM restrictions, one at high RPM and one at lower RPM/ higher MAP. Unless you're racing, you're not going to fly at 2,700 rpm continuously. It just not affect the way you normally fly. From the way I read the low restriction is you can't run 23 square which is the only power I could see I would want to run at and could not, but there are so many more likely power settings (map/rpm) combos I could or would run. Again Hartzell has tested it and its a KNOWN. Just because MT or WW don't have restrictions does not mean much, because some have not tested their prop with electronic ignition, which I think is the case with WW and MT.

Check out the TBO or recommend overhaul time on a WW 200RV prop? I forget but its very short. Where do you get it worked on? At the factory requiring you ship the prop in a long, box, which will weigh a good bit with the if you make it out of plywood. Shipping damage? Point you can get a hartzell worked on almost anywhere, but I would go to approved hartzell shops. Usually they are nearby or a hour or three drive almost anywhere in the country. (Read the story on this web sites cover page about a RV8 flyer and his experience flying into the Hartzell's main corporate service center.

Not only is the HC less money you get better service, no doubt cheaper service, longer TBO, no or less RPM restrictions that have been TESTED, better performance (BA prop is faster). The only thing you really have a clear advantage on is the weight. Well a RV6a could benefit from less weight on the nose that is true. However I could benefit in losing 10 lbs off my gut. The weight difference is there, but does that over ride everything else?

Search the archives for Hartzell and Whirlwind or whirl wind. My personal preference is for hartzell simply because they have been in business for so long. Yes older props have AD's but the new BA is AD free and has the benefit of many many many many decades of experience.

Whirlwind 200RV
 

Unlike George, I have experience with the Whirlwind 200RV propeller. He is extremely biased toward the Hartzell for a couple of reasonable reasons, mainly company longevity. But certainly not justifiable reasons to eliminate all other brands. I have seen 3 different props on the same airplane (not mine) and can give you real world experience.

I have the WW 200RV on my ECI equipped I0360 and have excellent results. There were two issues within the first 100 hours that were taken care of quickly and professionally. The first issue involved surging with power application. At 55 hours a significant leak developed. I was tearing down for paint immediately after this flight so it was no major inconvenience. As it turns out a seal was improperly installed during manufacture. This caused the leak and the surging. No other similar issues.

Later, the backplate bracket cracked. This had been a known problem that occurred with the early props. This involved removing the prop, replacing the bracket and reinstalling the prop. I did the process in two hours. WW now has made mods to prevent future problems in this area. There have been no reports of problems since the fix was developed.

I had my prop dynamically balanced. The prop balanced to 0.00, perfect. The guy said he has never had a prop balance to 0. Obviously, everything is extremely smooth.

Performance is excellent. The sweet spot for the prop on my set up is 2400 rpm in cruise. There is another RV7 on my airport with the same engine. His plane is approximately 80 lbs lighter. He has a Hartzell BA prop. Throw in pilot weight difference and we are over 100lbs apart. I can fly away from him with similar power settings.

Robbie Attaway has an RV6 with ECI IO 360 that has been worked. He has the cold air induction, ECI fuel injection system and a few other mods. He first had a Hartzell BA prop and the plane performed fine. He wanted more and purchased the Aerocomposites prop. I know he paid over $12000 for the prop and had two major problems within 25 hours. He returned that prop.

My neighbor has a WW200RV that he wasn't going to be needing for while so Robbie installed it on his 6. In his words, "the plane came alive." He said he gained several knots of airspeed and the smoothness is without equal. He ordered on immediately. He is now has his own WW 200RV and is extremely happy. You can see a picture of Robbie's plane on the WW website. It is the purple one.

I have flown in a variety of environments including non paved runways. The prop looks like new with no chips, scratches or dents. The nickle leading edge protective strip is doing its job.

I would definitely purchase a WW if building a new plane. Keep in minde that although the WW 200RV is relatively new to aviatoin, the company is not new to manufacturing propellors for a variety of uses. You can't go wrong with the Hartzell either. You can go to www.attawayair.com for Robbie's information. He will gladly talk to you about his experiences with all three propellors.

The scoreboard from my experience is as follows. Performance- Whirlwind, Smoothness- Whirlwind, Company longevity- Hartzell, Cost -Hartzell.

Good luck with your decision. Either way you'll have a good prop.

I'd be interested in knowing if 6A's will have their baggage area amount affected by the light prop up front.

rv200 WW 310hrs.

RV-6a's will, but not as bad as your -7a, especially since they were designed to have the lighter engine up front. As always, you can play with where you put stuff when you build so that you don't have a problem.

Latest Experience with Whirlwind
 

I have an RV-8A with an IO-360-A1B6 and the WW 151 propeller. Last week (June 12) I flew to Ashtabula to have the team at Whirlwind Aviation perform the inspection and update.

In short, the experience I had working with this group was exemplary. Bill Koleno and Greg of Whirlwind and Titan Aircraft provided both customer service and technical skill in working on my propeller that has resulted in improved propeller performance. The propeller cycles instantaneously, is smoother in flight, and exhibits zero play at the hub. They were extraordinarily careful and thorough in inspection, service, and reinstall.

In order to make sure that I could return to Wisconsin on time, they stayed late (beyond 10:00 PM) to finish the prop, and were waiting at the airport for me the next day at 7:00 AM to install it on the plane. They stayed with me, and Bill joined me on a test flight, to ensure that everything was working correctly.

I purchased this propeller with recognition that it was an experimental system that might require additional work to meet the original design specifications. I made this decision because of the technical and performance benefits I believed the prop would deliver. In particular, the 28 lb. weight presumably has an extraordinary effect on the flying characteristics of the 8A when the 200 hp counter-balanced Lycoming is used. In addition, the increased ground clearance, reduced vibration and noise in flight, nickel leading edge for abrasion protection, and enhanced climb rates were things I thought were desirable, particularly from my experiences in owning airplanes before the 8A.

My experiences with the propeller so far have been very positive. It has performed as advertised.

My recent experiences suggest that Whirlwind Aviation is commited to supporting this product. There is no question that I would purchase from them again if the product they offered was something that best suited my application.

Sincerely,
Jay K. Martin
N616LM

This might help:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ight=whirlwind

Waiting on appointment confimation
 

Jay:

I have had several discussions with Greg, John and Bill. My current plan is to fly up next Wednesday and repeat the steps you did, but I have not received a call or response to my e-mail confirming the date. How did you receive a response and from who? Mine is not counterweighted, but I hope to realize the improvements you noticed.

WOW
 

Never said the 200RV is a bad prop. Facts are facts. In fact it would be my second choice based on value/performance but admit service concerns me.

Respectfully disagree that "the scoreboard" puts the performance nod to Whirlwind, the Hartzell is faster. I know those that don't like that data say it's not good, but it's the best we have, Hartzell (C2YR-1BF/F7496) wins the speed race @ 8,000', 2,500 rpm & WOT. (two mph faster than the WW 200RV)

(click)



We need a new prop "shoot out" test. Prop manufactures really DON'T want side-by-side or controlled prop test, because than prefer rumor and hearsay that theirs is faster. There is no consumer reports for aircraft props. If you want a fast prop, the Hartzell is as good as it gets, in my opinion. It was made spacifically for the RV's. However prop tip/ground clearance, weight and smoothness are factors, certainly. Some go on looks. There's no doubt a three blade prop, finished in white w/ red tip stripes is sexy, VaaVaaVaVoom. Hartzell is boring GRAY. :( But you can get custom blade paint jobs on your Hartzell, any color, pattern or graphic.


A builders prop experience w/ AeroComp, MT and Hartzell (on a RV-8):
http://www.lazy8.net/proptest.htm

(Note: He used the older Hartzell 2YK/F7666, also his Aerocomp expeirance. When you get into stronger stiffer composite props you lose the smoothness of the wood based prop like the MT. The Hartzell was fairly smooth.)

Whirlwind
 

[quote=gmcjetpilot]Respectfully disagree that "the scoreboard" puts the performance nod to Whirlwind, the Hartzell is faster. I know those that don't like that data say it's not good, but it's the best we have, Hartzell (C2YR-1BF/F7496) wins the speed race @ 8,000', 2,500 rpm & WOT. (two mph faster than the WW 200RV)


George you keep going back to a test from a few years ago. That was on one airframe. Yeah the Hartzell was 2 mph faster in that one test.

Contact Robbie Attaway and discuss his results with his tests. He is too busy to post any long winded test process. He will tell you the WW was at least 7 knots faster than the Hartzell on his RV6 and more compared to the Aerocomposites. He has no bias toward any one brand but desired the best performance and he found it.

I have also told you that at equal power settings, I'm faster than a nearly identical (but lighter) 7 with a Hartzell. Side by side testing at the same altitude and same power settings. The higher we went, the faster I was.

The Hartzell may not be the "King of the Hill" anymore. Get one and test it for yourself.

Additionally, you question the company support, yet everyone on this topic has said the company support was excellent.