HP Increase on -E2D
 

I have reached the limit of my regulation digging and knowledge and need some guidance from real mechanic types:

I have an RV-9A with an O-320-E2D with 160hp ECI Titan Cylinder Assembiles. There is no 337 or STC because it doesn't apply to airframe and the HP increase was not greater than 10%, but there is a logbook entry saying all worked performed IAW Lycoming service manual and AC43-13.

Special Airworthiness was issued with 25hr Phase 1 due to certified engine and prop combo. Is it correct one of the following 2 options must be done?

1. Keep engine "certified" by complying with Lycoming Service instruction and ensuring a "C" is appended to the engine serial number
2. Make engine experimental and remove the data plate

I would assume there's more aircraft value in option #1.

Also...does swapping the originally certified -E2D Slick Mag with an E-MAG make the engine experimental anyway requiring removal of the data plate or may this be covered by "C" stamp also?

Thanks...Tim

E2D
 

Without the STC for the 160 hp upgrade your engine is technically experimental.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t think you have to remove the data tag to make the engine experimental. I thought that was an old wives tale. I look forward to hearing from the smarter ones out there on this...

From what I understand STCs are airframe dependent and since there's no such thing as an STC for EAB, you can't have an STC for an engine on an RV. The only 160 STCs for -E2D are RAM and Ly-Con and they are for Cessna and Pipers. Plus you don't need and STC for just the engine because the because the TCDS E-274 covers almost all variants of the O-320...your not changing the TC by using -D2A cylinder assemblies on a -E2D.

There are examples for this in the certified world outside of already established STCs with simply a logbook entry (no 337) because it is considered a minor alteration. You're not changing the TCDS and your not increasing the HP over 10%. As long as you use serviceable Lycoming approved parts, follow Lycoming manuals, and do SI1304J (stamp "C" at end of serial number). In fact SI1304J is exactly for this purpose...you are changing the designation from a -E2D to a -D2A model by installing -D2A parts.

Check out this discussion...
https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...160-hp-upgrade

Any engine conversion that increases the Horsepower of the engine is a major alteration and requires a 337 in the certified world. I held a FAA approved process spec, for the repair station, that allowed such conversions and was the approved data for the 337. I went back and forth with the FAA over this for years and finally got the approval. I was in the NY area and have been out of circulation for the past 8 years. Maybe something has changed but the FAA would not allow a conversion that involved a horsepower change without a337 for it. BTW an E2D has a different crankshaft and main bearing setup as compared to a D2A. So just replacing the cylinders with high compression ones is not converting it to a D2A.
Good Luck,
Mahlon

Ok...I actually looked up 43 App A instead of relying on the internet. You're right!

So...how does one keep my engine "certified" in an RV with this HP increase? Can you even do a 337 for just an engine on an RV? Would the 337 application even be possible because the aircraft is not TC'ed in the Standard Category?

Thanks for the help!

What I'm trying to prevent is any perceived devaluation of the aircraft because it has an "experimental" engine instead of the certified engine/prop combo. I personally don't care what my engine label is...it's a great running engine. Maybe this is moot because it still a Lycoming and has 10 more HP.

Have read all the responses in this thread.

Looking up the tail number in your signature, I find that you are the aircraft owner and not the builder. Aircraft was manufactured in 2004. The FAA Registry lists the aircraft as EXPERIMENTAL with a Lycoming engine.

Most people believe that any engine in an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft is an experimental engine and will remain that way as long as it is in the airplane. The engine would need to be removed from the airplane and someone like an A&P would then need to inspect the engine and make some sort of log entry that the engine meets the original FAA Type Certificate so that it can be installed in a Type Certificated aircraft.

For use in your RV-9A, you do not need to do anything to the engine data plate and I do NOT recommend removing the data plate from the engine. Lycoming Engine data plates are suppose to be difficult to obtain but one can buy blank data plates on eBay at a reasonable price if you really need a different data plate.

The Operating Limitations (OpLims) are the document that must be followed for operation and or modification of YOUR aircraft. IF someone else modified the engine like you describe, then the OpLims should have been followed with required log entries and test flying. IF you are modifying the engine, then you must follow what the OpLims say about the change.

Mahlon knows more about engines that I do. I would trust his guidance on engines. I do know Lycoming made one 320 engine that had different front main bearings and that engine was not recommended going to higher compression over the 150 HP. I know most 320 series Lycoming engines have the same bore and stroke. MOST 320 going from 150 HP to 160 HP typically involve different higher compression piston and a thicker wall heavier piston pin that is used on the 160 HP engines.

Your original 1st question answer is: The engine is not "certificated" as long as it is installed in an Experimental airplane. Some may argue that as long as it is maintained by an A&P it will but that is subject to debate.

Question 2 answer: Do not remove the data plate. Somewhere I remember reading that one cannot remove the data plate but I am drawing a blank on the source. IIRC, only the manufacturer can remove or change the data plate.

IF there are some log entries by others for the work but the log is missing test flights, and you are attempting to correct inaccuracies in the logs, one needs to go back to the OpLims that are in the airplane now and also determine what OpLims were in the airplane when modifications were done. This will tell what needs to be accomplished to get the aircraft back into Phase II operations outside the test flight area.

Just my opinion and may not be worth any more than you paid for the info.

So here's an interesting wrinkle...DAR issued Airworthiness and OpLims with the engine already converted to 160HP. Before it was put in my ship it was overhauled and put in a Glasair, so I presume no record of flight test is required. Maybe this airworthiness issued in error as a certified engine/prop combo? (Not that it matters now because there's almost 700 hrs on the airplane.) The engine was topped 2 years after the airworthiness was issued and was done with new ECI Titan160HP cylinder assemblies (TIST04.1CA) to keep 160HP.

Sometimes a DAR can make a mistake. People are human and can make mistakes. The mistake is not an issue if no one gets hurt.

My RV-6 had a 25-hour phase I test period because I had a certificated engine and prop combination. The only thing about the engine is that it had a data plate that was for a B2B engine and that is Fixed Pitch prop. I used the Lycoming instructions to convert the engine to constant speed operation.

Thanks for all the help...I'm slowly comprehending my situation.