Barrel roll
 

I don't want to start a fight, but has anyone here tried a barrel roll in their RV-9?

It feels like it would be easy..

[ed. The RV-9/A is not approved for aerobatics, and a lot of FAA I.P. addresses visit this site daily. If you want to admit online to doing acro in an RV-9/A, let me know how that works out ;^). v/r,dr]

Nope.
 

Here’s a thought.... hop in your RV-9, fly to Santa Paula, (KSZP) rent a Decathlon and instructor at CP Aviation and you can do all the barrel rolls you like. And it’ll be fun, and safe. I promise!

You can roll just about any airplane.

You could even put a -9 in phase 1, test each manuver you want to do, and then sign it off to do aerobatics just as readily as any other experimental to make it technically legal.

That doesn't make it a good idea in an airplane that isn't designed for it. A number of folks have pulled apart non-aerobatic airplanes doing acro.

I recently finished reading "Growing up Boeing", about some of the Boeing test pilots in the post-war era and the early development of the 707, 727, 747, 737, and 757.

No one publicly admits it, but the author (the daughter of a former Boeing Chief Test Pilot) pretty clearly documents that everything up to, but probably not including, the 787 has been barrel rolled.

If they can roll a 747, I'm guessing you can roll pretty much anything.

True, and one of the best ways to determine if you have the skill and experience to safely do it is whether or not you wonder about it in the first place. ;)

Roll
 

Search Boeing 707 barrel roll for video. Tex Johnson in the prototype 707 which at that time was called the dash 80. While it was generally referred to as a barrel roll it was actually a aileron roll.

At least one person did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eTIxg6pOBY

And before the pile-on starts, it's not me and I don't recommend it. So the answer to your question is "Yes, but don't".

Chris

Pardon
 

Pardon my ignorance here, but what?s the big deal about a barrel roll? Essentially, it?s a 1g maneuver which makes it pretty benign. While I would agree that you wouldn?t want to go out and do snap rolls and outside loops in an RV-9, what?s the danger of doing something as docile as a barrel roll?

I'd suggest you are correct, there is nothing wrong with the barrel roll in and of itself. But what about when it doesn't turn out as planned, as often happens (nose isn't high enough, pulled to hard going over the top, etc) - we all know how quickly these machines wind up and all of a sudden you're well north of 1G...if you're wanting to do aeros, I'd suggest doing them in an aircraft that's designed for it

If we accept the traditional acro definitions, a barrel roll is a combined looping and rolling maneuver. You can't do a barrel roll at 1G. You are thinking of the simple aileron roll where you pitch up a little, neutralize the elevator and just push the stick over, which can be done at 1G thru the roll.

I guess I need to do some aerobatic learning because I have always understood a barrel roll to be a roll maneuver which is using pitch input to scribe a corkscrew pattern through the air which when done properly is a 100% 1G maneuver.

Your right. Properly done it is benign. But if someone with low or no experience does one and things go bad, they can go very bad in a hurry.
An airplane rated for aerobics will have a much larger safety margin to help the pilot sort it out.

Just don't do that any more.
 

https://youtu.be/Ra_khhzuFlE?t=61

Technically, a barrel roll has very similar G loading to an inside loop. 3 to 3.5 on the pull up and pull out of the loop portion. Almost no G at the top.

Only an aileron roll properly done is a 1 G to a zero G load and back to 1 G.

That's not the traditionally accepted meaning of "barrel" roll. If it was, there would be no difference between saying "barrel" roll and "aileron" roll.

I think my post already indicated that I understood that (now) but to me there still can be a difference. What I described is not constant altitude. What I (now I know incorrectly) understood to be a true aileron roll scribes a perfectly straight longitudinal line while rolling which has to include something less than 1G while inverted.

Aileron roll: pull nose up, neutralize pitch input, aileron only and nose drops, close to 1G through rolling

Slow roll (IAC competition name): flight path constant, -1G inverted with constant rudder, elevator, and aileron input changes for a constant flight path and roll rate.

Barrel roll as others have said, combination of loop and roll with ~3G pull into a loop at the entry

https://www.iac.org/legacy/aerobatic-figures

I wonder who the first guy was to do a roll?

Yeah too many rolls terms to cross up - barrel, aileron, slow, ballistic, lobster, etc. The only one that has real standards is the one where your flight path maintains straight and level as you roll, which should see a perfect +1G to -1G transition. Some call this a "slow" roll, but in the competition world, it's just called an "aileron" roll, since there are only two types of rolls - aileron and snap, and aileron rolls must always be done on a constant line. In the recreational acro world, "slow" roll means the comepetition style roll, "aileron" means the pitched up positive (1G) roll, and barrel means looping and rolling together.

Rolls
 

As i posted in another thread a few days ago, some time ago IAC tampered with roll terminology.
Maybe we could use Hoover Roll as a better way to avoid confusion. Most at some point have seen this roll performed in the Shrike Commander as well *** several other types. Hoover did the roll on at least one occasion while pouring ice tea with the airplane inverted for the camera. No significant heading displacement, positive G all the way around.
A barrel roll changes heading either 45 degrees or 90 degrees(military) and as previously noted involves approximately as much G load as a loop.

I think his name was Adam.

Best to talk your wife into letting you spend a few hours with Patty Wagstaff in Florida. Lots of ways to skin a cat, but you don't want to de skin your 9 or even wrinkle it.

I have never known anyone that took aerobatic flight training with Patty that felt it was anything other than a really great use of time and money.
One of her instructors used to own an RV.

I hope you do really really good barrel rolls. Cause when I do em in my +6G 8, particularly to the right, I sometimes end up going pretty much straight down. And if you do that, you may pull more than the 4.4 G's a 9 is stressed for.

(Yeah, I know--my barrel rolls are lousy):rolleyes:

Acro
 

I will remind you as I did several times in the past. The guy in NJ that pulled a RV7 apart was trying to teach himself aerobatics.
The OP is in socal. Lots of really good aerobatic training available in the area.

So what do you call a roll that was previously described as a corkscrew roll?

i.e. what your wingman does if your doing a perfect aileron roll (roll about your longitude axis)

Just to add a visual, this is what most people would define as a barrel roll, not sure what the IAC consider a barrel roll. it is supposed to be a ~1G maneuver.

Aileron rolls all day in a 9A with no more than 1.5G's recorded. Very nimble and smooth. Youtube can teach you anything.....

I almost hate to weigh in on this since there are so many different opinions. I was taught in several different aircraft that a barrel roll is a 2 G maneuver. I was also taught that you start the nose up and roll at a rate that allows the aircraft to arrive at the inverted position with the nose on the horizon and 90 degrees of heading change. Done right you roll out back on the horizon on the original heading and altitude. There is no way to do a barrel roll as a 1G maneuver. Common mistakes I see are not getting 90 degrees of heading change at the inverted point and as someone else mentioned winding up very nose down. Many attempts that I see are more a loaded up aileron roll than a true barrel roll.
George

Vs

Thanks for the good discussion everyone (but too bad it is now buried here in the RV-9 forum).
I now know that my (what I thought were) barrel rolls, are actually Hoover rolls.
I guess I should take on the challenge of learning to do actual barrel rolls.