Easiest landing light install?
 

I've been avoiding installing the standard leading edge landing/taxi light kit cause it's looked like a PITA. I thought I'd ask the question... Is this the easiest way to retrofit a landing light? Are there easier answers today? Small whole, drop in... wire... lights!

Follow-up question, similar for taxi camera (RV-4)

Thanks!

Wing tip lights avoid butchering the LE of the wing.

It?s intimidating to cut into the leading edge but frankly it isn?t difficult. I don?t consider following the plans to be ?butchering?, but lots of folks go with wing tip lights to avoid cutting into the leading edge out of fear. It?s just not that hard.
Choose what you want to do based on where you want the lights. I don?t think you will find one way easier than another, just different.

"butchering" ? If cutting for the landing light is butchering then what would you call building the entire plane?

During these last few months where I've been doing my condition inspection items and adding IFR avionics, AOA heated pitot, and installing the OnSpeed system, I have a new found respect for people who build their planes. I hope to one day do it too but it would have to be more of a "just assemble it" kit, like a Rans' S-21, over a Van's kit due to all the fabrication that I just don't have the knowledge to do.

What you call butchering I call art.

Taxi camera -- one hole in an access panel. See:

https://www.amazon.com/Backup-Rear-V...5-4be35d7258cc

Cheers!

B

Leading edge lights truly are a hack job, that can go wrong quickly. When I tried to install mine, the handheld bandsaw I was using to start the cut got turned sideways. The ribs were no match for it, but the spar was tough enough to redirect the cut. Before I knew it, the saw was self-matriculating inward. When it hit the fuel tank, hoo boy! Luckily, the ARFF crew arrived before the fire spread to the corporate hangar. The gang at Gallagher were super helpful in sorting out the claim, given the number of parties involved.

:rolleyes:

It is intimidating, but really easy to do. As I've said for years: I've jumped out of a perfectly good airplane, I've left the safety of a floating boat in the middle of the ocean to go 100' underwater, but the scariest thing I have ever done is take a perfectly good top on a brand new Ford Escort and cut a big flippin' hole in it to install an aftermarket sunroof (fresh out of The University, no cash for the factory option!). The leading edge landing light retrofit was not that scary, measure twice (or more), cut once, file to finish.

Now that looks simple and light. Any lightweight monitor for that since I don't have a Skyview or Garmin?

Just 4.8 ounces, perfect! Thanks.

I'm actually glad I didn't know about these lightweight cameras when I was searching for an RV because I might have bought a -7 instead of my -8.

I didn't like that I could hardly see over the dash while taxiing and one of these might have changed my mind. Now that I have the -8 I'm super convinced I like it more but for the next purchase, if I ever decide to sell the -8, this might come in handy. Thanks.

That looks great if you have a display. I have a GDU 370 (non-touch) no camera input. Anyone have good options there? I don't have room for another display. Phone display?

I prefer eBay over Amazon so I went searching and found these way cheaper and seem to be the same thing :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/170-CMOS-HD...4AAOSw3Dtd2FRr

And if you don't want to wait for it from China, for a few dollars more this one ships free from New Jersey so you get it quicker yet it's still way cheaper than on Amazon

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-C...QAAOSw6Ilch318

You got me thinking (dangerous), if you're only going to use it for taxiing, how about before takeoff you just store away the monitor? If you don't want to install cables you might look at one of these wireless ones. At this price I might order one just to see how they work. I don't need it for my plane but if it's good I'll install it on the cab tractor !

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-IR...dLMpp&LH_BIN=1

Cutting sheet metal is not hard. You built what looks like a beautiful fast back RV-4.

1) Why do you need a TAXI Camera? I have 900 hours in RV-4 and they are easy to taxi with out S-turn. Keep your plane light and simple. You have the worlds greatest moving map camera in the world.... your two eyeballs looking out of that beautiful bubble canopy. I suppose you could fit a camera in with the taxi/light. Good gosh....

2) Why do you need a light? Do you fly at night a lot? Personally I flay at night on occasion and don't need them to land or taxi at big city airports with a lot of runway and ramp lights. In remote locations at night you need lights. It is not a FAR. I have lights primarily for wig wag recognition lights. However think about the time, money and weight? Do you need it? Weight and electrical load is not much of a factor now with LED's lights.

3) Yes wing tip lights are in fiberglass would be less stress, I guess fixing a mistake with fiberglass or even wing tip replacement may be less painful. What type of wing tip do you have? Do you have the original Hoerner style or later symmetric wing tips (early "bat wing" or later non bat wing)? Routing the wires will be the biggest challenge. Van's current wing tip has a pocket already molded in. The early Hoerner wing tips required you to cut it out. In my RV I had a Horener style landing light wing tip kit with big landing lights. They worked great but were incandescent and sucked the electrical power. I sold her before LED's were out. You could buy new wingtips with the cutouts for the lights already but that is expensive and a lot of work to install new wingtips.

4) The Wing LE leading edge is common and Duck works http://www.duckworksav.com/LELightKits.htmland others have kits. Cutting it out is not difficult if you use some care and skill, which I am sure you do. However on one of van's demo planes I recall they made a boo boo and have a repair at their wing landing light.

To cut leading edge out follow kit instructions first.... Lay out pattern with template with fine sharpie. Check it three times to make sure it is located correctly. Cut inside your trim line and file to final size. You will open up 1" holes in the corners so you have at least a 1/2" radius in teh skin corners. Cut between the corners with a cut-off wheel and steady hand. Or I like a hack saw blade with a handle. It will not take long to cut the four sides. Once cut out there will be a rough uneven edge. Avoid using a sanding disk as it might get away from you up to you.... I use a hand file to even it out and get to your trim line, then deburr. You will mount the bulkhead between two ribs and install the light. Drill holes to mount plexi cover and install nut plates. Run wire to cockpit in a conduit and wire to switch and power. Done. Now do the other side.

I am not as worried about the cut-out as I am about riveting in the lens retainer strips on an already painted wing.

I have a flying RV-3B with a beautiful paint job. I bought the Duckworks retrofit lens kit for a Squadron Pro light. So last month I got a new cut out in my wing LE without disrupting the paint. It was done by a good friend Dennis who is a master craftsman. I re-drew the Duckworks pattern in my CAD program and printed it out on Vellum for easier use. Once the outline was marked we used flexible straight edges and a circle template to scribe the paint cutting the line down to the bare aluminum so that the cutting process would not impact the remaining paint. Then we applied masking tape outside of the scribe line to protect the finish and Dennis went after it with a Dremel cutt-off wheel. He cut to with an 1/8" of the scribe and then finished cutting to the line with mill files. It turned out great.

I am getting finished with a mini makeover/upgrades on the rest of the bird so now I need to decide if I want to install the retainer strips with rivets on the top or on the bottom. The instructions are for the top with screws used on bottom for access. Since my wing has a perfect finish I am thinking of doing it opposite so the dimpling for the rivets in on bottom and the screws are on top. It seems to be fraught with potential paint cracking and messy finish. Any comments about this would be appreciated.

Jim

I'm not an RV builder but have experience repairing things around the farm and when you said you didn't want to rivet on a painted surface, have you considered using JB Weld to hold those strips? When you said retainer strips I guess it's different than my RV-8 because I have screws holding the lens on top and on the bottom (the lense is easy to remove but a bi#@$ to re-install).

When JB Weld dries that part is not coming off without a grinder !

Belly mounted lights?
 

What is the thought on belly mounted lights? I know a guy who mounted a car flood light to the bottom of his Rans. I know an RV would produce more drag, but couldn't something like this be simple, three holes ( mounting and wiring) mounted through the floor and reinforced?

Nibbler
 

If you are worried about the cutting tool getting away from you consider a nibbler. Hand or powered.

Yes, takes much longer and strengthens your forearm muscles, but no worries.

Something like this:
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/e...RoCYD8QAvD_BwE

Finn

I am a farmer too which when you look at the percentage of the population in agriculture that's a nice coincidence.

Yes. The RV-8 has a larger leading edge radius allowing screws on top and bottom. Many RV-8 builders bond the attach strip with nutplates to the inside of the lens with double-sided tape to keep it in place when installing the screws. I guess JB Weld would work too. Personally I would likely use Scotch Weld 2216 (BMS 5-92) for the application but in reality a good adhesive sealant like Permatex Right Stuff would probably work too.

However, the RV-3B has a tighter radius so Duckworks designed the retainer to be riveted on the top side of the cut out to eliminate holes being drilled in the acrylic lens eliminating cracking due to induced stress. It was designed this way after reports of trouble from the thinner airfoil wings like the RV-3.

So now I am starting to seriously consider structurally bonding the upper retaining strip in place and have no holes at all on top. When the lens is installed it is designed to have the edge slipped into the upper retainer strip and then 3 screws on the bottom retainer to hold it in place. The highest load on the retainer will be when installing the lens and bending it to insert into the retainer. So shear, peel and tension at the skin for whatever holds or bonds the retainer in. Flight loads will be less than installation loads.

Jim

So if it doesn?t come apart installing it then it won?t come off in flight? Then that?s what I would do.

Try the ckickbond nutplate. The nutplates are bonded to the inside of the skin so you never have to rivet anything through the skin. The adhesive it uses is super strong and it is certified for all kinds of aerospace structures. The only hole you have to drill is the hole for the flush screw

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...?clickkey=9826

Once you use it, it don't want to use the traditional method again.

It's a great idea but WOW are they expensive ! I always like to read the reivews :

"I have been using these nut plates extensively for many years. they are very good in situations where you would like to have a locking nut but dont want a nut on the back, however, they do wear out, and there is the issue of them occasionally popping off...."

This thread just got me thinking again (still dangerous :)) I want to install some nutplates in a space that's tight but not structural so I'm going with my previous idea, JB Weld which will be permanent.

The hardest part of the job is running the wires safely through the fuselage and wings. Cutting the holes in the leading edge, or putting them in the wingtips, is a snap.

TIP: Putting a lightweight conduit in the wings during construction will make you smile later, or make a subsequent owner smile.

No question about it. My RV-3B has factory built wings and they have a PVC conduit from the root to the tip. Very nice. When I ran my lead to a temperature probe mid wing I acessed the conduit from an inspection plate and carefully routed out a hole in it to spliit out the probe wire. So the wiring has been the easiest part of my wingtip light install.

When I decided to install the Dynon AOA heated pitot tube in my 10 year old plane the thing that had me the most preoccupied was threading those wires through the wing because I had read on the forum so many horror stories.

Again, I'm not a RV builder but with the help of a twice around RV-4 builder (thanks Arlie) we came up with a simple solution that took a little over an hour total.

Drill through the ribs, install plastic Lowe's snap bushings, then add a PEX tube (which is smooth inside) and done! I put a little bit of Goop sealer where the PEX came into the fuse to keep it from moving and the wires went through easily. We first thought about using a PVC pipe but then realized that PEX weighs less than PVC.

As long as the adhesive holds. The aerospace adhesive evolved quite a bit since the late 70's. Back then nobody trusted adhesive alone and structure design have reams of paper to certify the bonded joints will hold. Now bonded joints can be used in primary structural elements because the method like Click-Bond made applying it fool proof. I had JB weld on my motorcycle that had the transmission case crack from a minor tip over. It still hold for over 20 years now.

Those are great but don't gain anything with the Duckwors leading edge landing light install kit because there are no nutplate rivets through the wing skins. They are in the internal retaining strips exclusively so hidden in the wing. They are easy to rivet on the bench prior to installing in the wing.

Sorry to be slightly off topic but can the duckworks kit be installed without removing the fibreglass wing tip? Mine is riveted in place and would be a pain to remove.

Riveted tips make it a bigger process for sure. All the DW lamp installs I did were with the tips off, can't think of how I could do it with them on.

How do you change the bulbs? You can't replace the bulbs from the front, it has to be from the back of the reflector mount.

Thanks for the response. Apart from wiring, what about the structural parts? Can they be installed through the cutout? I guess drilling out the rivers is not the end of the world but I would avoid it if I could.

Yes you might be able to install the reflector with the build installed from the front but how are you going to replace a burnt bulb when the bulb has a set screw holding it in place from the rear?

The kit I'm looking at has the reflector held in place with two screws with washers into nutplates.

So, you'd unscrew them and pull the reflector out.

From the "Duckworks Landing Light Installation Instructions":
"Note that these instructions are written for installation in a completed wing."

(Hole in LE skin cutout instructions)

"When the cut-out is completed, it will provide all access to the wing needed to complete the installation."

Finn

All my installations (per DW instructions) are accessible by removing the lens (6 screws), than if necessary removing the 4 mount/adjustment screws and swiveling the mounting bracket around to get to the H-4 bulb if that style lamp was used. Kind of awkward but doable. If memory serves me, only one of my customer RVs ever had a H-4 bulb burn out.
For other lamps that I adapted (LEDs etc) I would create lamp bracketry that was accessible from the front.

Note these comments don't apply to later model kits. They employ different bracketry in the wing.

So you basically have to remove the entire thing (lense, reflector/mount) just to change a bulb? I guess yes it?s doable but not as easy as from behind like it was designed.

Like I said, 1 bulb replacement in the about 25 RVs with a H-4 bulbs over 18 years...
your experience may differ if operating off grass.