FLO-FAST Fueling Question?
 

I have hauled Mogas for a long time – 20 years J3-Cub and now 4 years RV-12. Never had a problem pouring directly from 5 gallon plastic cans directly into airplane.

Fast forward… this year, I’m realizing that at age 67, it might not be in my best interest to keep lifting heavy fuel cans to shoulder height. I have ordered four new 5 gallon racing fuel jugs which I will use to transport fuel to the hanger. No problem there. My plan is to purchase a 15 gallon FLO-FAST Professional Model Hand-Crank Pump and Gasoline Container Combo to transfer the fuel into the airplane. I think this is going to work well. I’ll post photos of the entire process as soon as I get it up and running.

My question is… does any of this need grounding for spark suppression? I always place plastic container on ground when filling which is recommended procedure. What to do at the hanger when pouring from 5 gallon jugs into 15 gallon FLO-FAST container? And then what about grounding 15 gallon rig to the airplane or even grounding the airplane to earth during fueling. I never did any of this for the 20+ years of hauling Mogas.

I think maybe old age is making me more cautious which is a good thing…

Good questions. I've pumped something over 3000 gals of auto fuel into my -12 with my Flo-Fast pump. I use the 5 gal tank with my Flo-Fast. I use Mr Funnel to transfer into the FF tank. The FF pump has a grounding cable that I connect to the aircraft. Never thought about grounding when transferring into the FF tank.

Hi Jim,

I've been using FLO-FAST jugs and pump for 10 years. I don't transfer fuel at the hangar, just put the pump on the 7.5 gal. jugs. Eliminates a hassle and any possible static problem from a transfer. I also have the optional 80 micron filter on the pump suction and don't feel any additional filtering is necessary.

I ground the pump to the aircraft aft tie-down ring and additionally I have a 50' ground cable that goes from the ring to the hangar power ground. The aircraft can be pulled out of the hangar for fueling with the reach of the 50' cable. I even leave the aircraft grounded when it is in the hangar as I usually have my Odyssey battery charger connected and a Golden Rod in the cockpit during winter. I've been taught that you can't have enough grounds!

Jim,

I?m 68 and thinking about the same thing. Sucks when we have to realize we aren?t still the veteran cosmic rockers (nod to the Moody Blues) that we were back in the 1970s!😜

Rich

I fuel with MoGas in my hangar. I built this "fuel cart". The jugs are just shy of 6 gallons each, the pump is 12 volt, designed for gasoline and pumps 8 gallons / minute.The filter is 17 micron with water block. The pump came with hoses that have a ground bond so the fuel is grounded from the container to the nozzle. The cart is grounded to the aircraft with a 1/8" vinyl coated cable 12' long. Another 12' cable connects the cart to the hangar ground. Total investment minus battery and labor $425.00.

I spent a lot of time struggling over the grounding issue, read a lot and decided it was important, the reason for the design and pump / hose I used.

Static can cause fire
 

Static will cause a fire. Here's one of many examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7IulTJlifo

Years ago EAA had an article how to put a ground strap & post in a plastic fuel container. I did this when using Mogas in my Tiger Moth. I never felt comfortable sitting on the top wing pouring from a plastic jerry can. I grounded the portable container to the aircraft and the aircraft to a ground.

Here is one EAA / CAFE article:

https://cafe.foundation/v2/pdf_cafe_...g%20Safety.pdf

Flo Fast
 

I have used 15 gallon Flo Fast containers and hand pump for racing and turf equipment. Now I use it for aircraft refueling. Works well on a low wing aircraft. The pump has a grounding cable that can be attached to the aircraft and then I use a 20 foot coiled grounding cable to ground the aircraft.

This is the grounding cable I use:
https://www.jmesales.com/stewart-bro...BoChUwQAvD_BwE

It's a lot of cranking, about 20 revolutions per gallon. Plus using it to pump fuel will eventually cause the pump to need to be primed especially when fuel level in the bottle is low. Remember the 15 gallon bottle weighs about 80 pounds filled and I use a hand truck to move it around the hangar.

The system will end up being a bit pricey. Bottle(s), pump, grounding coil and hand truck will probably cost about $500.

One other thing to consider. You should not fill the plastic fuel bottle unless it is on the ground. The 15 gallon version can be a problem lifting it into the bed of a truck.

I am at a tie down and pour from 5 gallon jugs directly into the plane. The jug is in direct contact with the filler tube at all times prior to, during and post fill. Is there still a spark risk unless the plane is grounded as well? I was only concerned with a spark from the jug to the plane, and not grounding the plane.

Would you kindly post a link?

The other EAA/CAFE link is dead.

George

Try GOOGLING: "CAFE Foundation" for their web site. Then "CAFE Reports", then "Fuel Handling Safety".

The EAA article was in their magazine. I have not been able to find it on line.

This link works for me https://cafe.foundation/v2/pdf_cafe_...g%20Safety.pdf

Also I made my grounding wire out of close line wire and put two spring clamps on it.

fuel handling safety article
 

The Cafe foundation link did not work directly for me either. I found the article another way. For those that can't get the link to work I put the .pdf on my google drive with a link below. Hope that helps.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19IU...ew?usp=sharing

Update on FLO-FAST 15-Gallon Filler System
 

I added 90 degree PVC fitting (3/4NPT x 1? Barb) to top of each 5-gallon Racing Jug so they will fit within the height of my car and also facilitate pouring into 15-gallon FLO-FAST container.

I mounted the 15-gallon FLO-FAST container on a two-wheel hand-cart using a ratchet strap to hold it in place. Then I added a metal bracket to support the hand-crank pump to keep it from rotating when turning the handle. Back of pump is fastened to the bracket with double-sided foam tape. Works a charm...

Then I added a filler port to the 15-gallon FLO-FAST container so I don?t have to remove the pump when adding fuel. I bought a Boat Deck Fill Tank Fuel Flange on eBay and installed it above the 15-gallon fill line using Pro-Seal fuel tank sealant.

Next, I?m going to add an electronic counter ($12 Amazon) to count pump handle rotations so I can correlate # turns/gallon.



how to upload photo on internet

In some states, it is against the law to carry gasoline cans inside of a vehicle.

Never heard of that. How would you haul gas for your lawnmower?

I use an "Aluminum Hitch Cargo Carrier" to haul gasoline. It attaches to the
trailer hitch on my Ford Escape. No gasoline smell inside of vehicle.

Visions of '70's era Pintos......... ;)

Hey Jim,
The flat metal brace you put behind the pump, and secured to the cart, is it lite steel or aluminum? If you bought the piece somewhere let me know please. If you cut it out from larger stock that’s good to know to.

I’m looking at some of my scrap at home and at the hangar but not finding a piece like seen in your photo. Thanks

Wow that is a really clean setup.

I believe I use the same Flo-Fast 7.5's and their best hand pump. I fill up the two containers at Farmers supply us using 90 octane, unleaded no alcohol for my Rotax ULS and hand load and unload them into my SUV. I unload them and hand pump the fuel into the RV-12 which is located passenger side behind the rear window just behind the wing. My question is where should I ground the container?

The FLO-FAST pump has a ground wire attached to the pump. I attach it to the two-wheel cart and then a wire from the cart gets attached to the tail tie down ring.

Strap is made from Home Depot mild steel strip.

Update 5-7-20
 

I finally got to try the entire system now that the Pro Seal has cured on the boat deck filler tank flange. Absolutely the nuts? I?m through lifting 5-gallon gas cans to shoulder height to pour into the RV-12. The FLO-FAST pump is easy to turn and outputs about one gallon for 10 turns. Today I rec?d the digital rev counter and I will make that part of the system and report out when complete.

I changed the 5-gallon pouring snout ? it is now a straight piece of ?? ID FLO-FAST tubing. This makes it easier to pour into the boat deck filler flange. I also changed the way the 5-gallon jug vents to allow a more vertical (fast) pour. This is still a work in progress but looks very promising. I?ll post photos when complete.

Suffice to say, I am very happy with the FLO-FAST. This should help me fly another 10+ years at which point I will be in my late 70?s? God willing.

Thank you.
I don't use a cart but if I located a grounding wire from the pump to the tie down and a ground cable from the tie down to a ground in the hangar would that serve as well?

And now.... the simpler solution.



Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

I have the 15 gallon version of the Flo-Fast with pump.
Instead of pouring the gas into the 15 gal container from the 5 gal ones, I simply set the 5 gal jugs up on a shelf or chair and use the pump, turning the handle backwards, to pump the gas into the 15 gal jug.
Instead of getting a cart, I just set the big jug on a small furniture mover from HF and it rolls around just fine.

I never considered running FLO-FAST pump in reverse to transfer from 5 gallon to 15 gallon. Good suggestion - and simple too...

Being tall at 6'5 makes for removal of a lot of the seating and back rest cushions in an RV-12 necessary and replaced with lawn chair furniture pads, so my head has clearance for the canopy to close.

On the plus side, I ground my arm against the skin of the plane while holding the 6 gallon plastic jerry cans while filling up the tank. I do need a quiet stretch of time from other plane noise at the airport to hear the gas starting to come up the spout, however.

To each his own, for now, the exercise is good, and filling up with premium at Costco is easy enough. I have 18 gallons of capacity, the Moller gauge on top of the planes gas tank is very good at letting me know how much I need to buy.

The strange part is when people see me pull up at a gas pump in an All Electric VW e-Golf and wonder what I'm going to fill up, until I lift the hatch back and grab the jerry cans.

For those using the Flo-Fast storage containers, have you found the container seal to be airtight? I am using standard 5 gallon containers and always get fuel fumes filling my car. I am willing to spend the extra money to have a secure leak-proof sealed container, but don't want to invest a lot to find out I'm wrong. Thanks.

These work great. Tight seal and no fumes in the car with jugs full or empty.

Amazon - 4 Pack VP 5 Gallon Square Red Racing Utility Jugs with 4 Deluxe Filler Hoses $120



html picture upload

Well allrighty then! I saw you once in a "Die Hard" movie. Spectacular.