Sun & Fun
 

We run a booth in hangar D selling hangars so everything is paid for, ready to go.
Wondering if anyone has heard if the show is considering cancelling?
Has anyone cancelled there own plans of coming?
Larry

According to AvWeb, Friday edition, Sun-N-Fun will go on as scheduled, but with extra cleaning.

just as a side note, i wrote SNF earlier this year questioning the poor conditions and distance of homebuilt parking last year. their response was that it would not be any better this year and that homebuilt parking was being moved farther south into what was the auto parking next to paradise city. so, worse taxi conditions, farther away, no facilities, and terrible transportation. just a heads up. I won't post the email in public, but I got the vibe that they don't care and don't really want us anyway. just my 2 cents, but Im staying home as are my dollars.

I plan on going and staying all week camping under the wing of the RV-4. What are the rules on bicycles? I'm a country flying, not used to lots of traffic. I was thinking about coming in early on the 30th. Are they already set up for fly-in arrivals?

Sun 'N Fun
 

I'm planning on going at least two days, flying in daily. I'm planning to (again) park in the old home built parking area as it's closest to the commercial displays. It's my way of saying to Sun 'N Fun that home builts do matter to their show success, and if they loose them, the show will go down hill fast.

Fred Stucklen
RV-7A N924RV 1735 Hrs & counting
KBKV

Sun n Fun
 

Ok did I miss something? Why would Sun n Fun consider canceling?

Coronavirus hysteria.

Backwoods
 

Guess you can tell I'm from the backwoods, we haven't had a cold here in a few years.

Their words, not mine:

The 2020 SUN ?n FUN Aerospace Expo will proceed as scheduled. While we are aware of and monitoring the current circumstances surrounding the COVID-19 Virus, the event will continue as planned. As the primary fundraiser for the Aerospace Center for Excellence, we remain dedicated to creating limitless opportunities for today?s youth but are also committed to public health and safety. SUN ?n FUN is working closely on a daily basis with local, state, and federal agencies to plan for a safe event with appropriate precautions and safeguards in place. As a result of this information and the recommendations of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) for large events and festivals, we are proceeding with SUN ?n FUN 2020 with the health and safety of our attendees, staff, and volunteers, as our top priority.

I volunteer at S-n-F along with my EAA Chapter and we are full speed ahead at this point -- there are no plans to cancel the show.

Years ago, Sun 'n' Fun was largely a homebuilt fly-in event, and homebuilt parking was full year after year. Over the years, though, homebuilt attendance faded (for no obvious reason) and the homebuilt parking area was more empty than full. Now they market the event as the Aerospace Expo and for their aviation high school -- which is pretty amazing, by the way. Some vendors told me a few years back that it cost more to exhibit at SnF than at Oshkosh, for less sales.

So, no, it is no longer much of a homebuilt event. And although I've not been closely tracking antiques, I think those are down at SnF over recent years, also. Then again, antiques are way down at Oshkosh, too, as many dedicated antiquers have flown west.

Seems to me like this is just reality-based decision making. Relatively few homebuilts attending, put the resources to better use.

I was considering going for my first time this year, but this makes it sound like homebuilts are not a prominent part of the show? That was my main reason for going.

Im planning on going this year at least two days. If you haven't been, you should go for sure. Staying home because there a fewer homebuilts seems counter productive. There is always something to see and do.
Since my 7 isn't ready, I plan on taking the 170 down.

Maybe the reason fewer and fewer homebuilts attend SnF is because how they treat the homebuilt crowd. I use to attend every other year or so, but swore off after the way homebuilt owners were treated when the tornado passed through the homebuilt parking area several years ago. They would not allow owners to go to their aircraft. They hired someone to move the damaged aircraft out of sight, and then had the gall to send a bill to the owners for the move, and to clean up any oil or gas spilled on their precious ground. I was planning to go that year but was unable to attend due to a scheduling conflict. Lucky me! I would have told them to stick their bill where the sun doesn't shine! I see their treatment of EAB hasn't improved.

Having been to Osh a few times before, I went to SnF for the first time in 2018. Essentially just a mini Osh for me. In a week at Osh you will not see and do it all. SnF just requires a couple days. It seemed that most homebuilts arrive in the am and leave in the pm. Only one "field" vs the many "fields" at Osh. Homebuilt parking was almost empty by the end of the day. I enjoyed the show very much but am going to Osh this year again, not SnF.

One small consolation, the new homebuilt parking area will not have to shut down during the airshow.

Truth in lending, if I weren't local I probably wouldn't take the time off to travel very far to S-n-F either. I prefer Osh for lots of reasons, but I still like S-n-F, warts and all. I guess it helps to look at S-n-F today as a large regional GA fly-in vs something E-AB centric regardless of how it got started. AirVenture suffers from some of that too, but it's so large that it's not quite as apparent. YMMV....

Homebuilt Camping
 

I have not seen any mention of Homebuilt camping, but in past years the HBC area has been very accommodating. No need to bring any food or drink supplies as they supply breakfast, lunch, and dinner for a modest cost/ donation. Although fairly far east of the main area, there are frequent trams running. A few of us from EAA 66 in Fort Myers will be staying a couple nights, some all week.

Been there
 

I had been planning to attend this year, but no longer due to personal reasons.
We flew there in 2000 with our 6A, tail to tail parking, lots of homebuilts.
Those were the good years in my opinion.
This year?s cancellation means the money I would have spent on travel is still in my pocket. The amount coincides with the cost of the radio I want to buy for my new project, so... in a weird way I?m getting a radio for free, sort of.
Still a win somehow.
Dale

I go every year, Oshkosh too. I love to get away from the north in early spring, and really look forward to this one more than Oshkosh - although I wouldn?t miss that either. This year I will be a volunteer at SNF, and looking forward to the opportunity. Experimental aviation is still the driver of this event, even if you don?t feel as welcome as you do at Airventure.

not really any plus as it is so far away, with a terrible tram system nobody will be there during the show anyway.

my big beef is if its a just a business decision say so, stop telling us it to "improve" the homebuilt experience. there were far better options than moving the homebuilts as far away as they could. I reallly think they are just moving toward a airshow format. As i have said, its all about the STEM education center now, the show is just a profit center for that purpose.

Sun & Fun
 

I have been to Sun 'N Fun approximately 15 times. Until last year I always stayed in a motel. If I flew in to Lakeland, I rented a car and drove back and forth the the motel.

Two years ago I bought an RV-12 and last year I flew into Sun 'N Fun and parked in homebuilt camping. For the first time, I camped. I had not camped since boy scouts and that was a long time ago. I had the best experience I have ever had at Sun 'N Fun.

I used to think if you camped, you flew in, tied down your airplane, pitched your tent, and then you were on your on. Not true.

They have a large tent in homebuilt camping and provide 3 meals a day for a donation. People are friendly. A night, they sit around in the tent and talk (surprise) airplanes. Some bring adult beverages and share them with others. It is just really a good time.

So I don't know about the numbers of homebuilt airplanes over the years and whether it has been down the last few years, but I say who cares. Homebuilt camping was full of airplanes and wonderful people. I can't wait to go back again this year. I started my condition inspection today so I can be sure to have it done in time for Sun 'N Fun even if I should find some problem.

So I hope all you wonderful people who were there last year will return and many more will come. It will be a good time.

We will be manning booths D-090 and D-091. Can't wait to get there!

Response from SUN 'n FUN Airshow Director
 

As the airshow director for SUN 'n FUN, I was the person who responded to n82rb's communication that he describes above. First. I'd like to thank all on this forum for your participation, candor and discussion on our event. Second, I'd like to acknowledge that I agree with n28rb's assessment that homebuilt accommodations have deteriorated at SUN 'n FUN over the past several years, and that the current situation is less than ideal. Third, as for his assessment of our concern, well, that is the reason I joined this forum. To set the record straight, I will readily post my email response that I sent him in public. Please judge our "vibe" for yourselves, and I welcome any and all comments, questions, and criticisms. Here is the email I sent - it's a long read, but I hope you'll all take the time and share it freely:

Dear (n28rb),

Thank you for taking the time to bring us your concerns about Homebuilt Parking. We understand completely how the change could be frustrating. We proudly acknowledge that our direction has certainly changed, especially over the past 5 years. However, you as an experimental aircraft owner are more important to us than ever, as Homebuilt builders showcase the innovation, professionalism, and determination that we believe are the cornerstones of the educational opportunities we offer at the Aerospace Center for Excellence. I?ll agree with you that over the past decade the experience for Homebuilt attendees has declined, along with your attendance. It?s our intention to correct that, and last year?s move was the beginning of a process that will take several years to fully realize. My response to you is lengthy, but I hope you will bear with me and see the time I?m taking to explain as evidence that you are important, and that we do in fact have a plan to improve your experience.

First, the attrition of Homebuilt participants to our Fly-In has been one of our major internal focuses over the past five years since the FAA began to enforce Order 8900.1 ch.6, which does not allow persons to gather beneath aircraft flying under 1000' AGL. Those Homebuilders flying in have had major complaints about not having access to or being able to show their aircraft due to the parking area being closed during the daily Flyby Showcase and during the airshow. So, the first reason for the move was to address your concern below about wanting people to be able to see Homebuilt aircraft. Given that the old area was in the aerobatic box during the airshow and under the Flyby Showcase route, it can?t be used as an aircraft display area. The boxes and routes cannot be moved, so we moved Homebuilt Parking. Now the aircraft are completely accessible for the duration of the show.

Second, as a matter of coincidence but not less important, the airport development plan will be eliminating the old Homebuilt area as an option for aircraft parking altogether after the 2021 show. There will be a taxiway right through the middle of it. So, a decision was made last year to begin the process of finding a new home for Homebuilt Parking. What you experienced last year was temporary while we work with the airport to make the grounds more usable for the reasons you point out in your email. We expect to move the area yet again this year to what will become its permanent home, adjacent to our Paradise City area not far from where it was this past year. Facilities are planned over the next few years similar to what you see at Oshkosh to improve the experience even more for those attending the new Homebuilt Parking. We are addressing the tram issues and creating routes that will be more accommodating. As for taxi routes, I?d need more detail from you, as the route you took to park is the same as all other aircraft parking in that area. I can see where having to taxi at all vs. where you were could be seen as a negative, so if that is the concern I?m afraid that won?t be changing much.

In a Town Hall meeting just this past Friday, KLAL Airport Director Gene Conrad told a group of our volunteers about the airport Master Plan development, and how improving the entire area for aircraft parking was a priority during the coming changes to the airport. The ditches will be culverted, ground leveled, and drainage improved. What you dealt with last year with regard to ground quality will not likely improve much this year, but I?d like you to understand that we take over areas of the airport each year that were never designed for aircraft parking, they are simply airport grounds in between taxiways. We will roll the ground frequently in the weeks leading up to the show to attempt to get it more level and smooth, and cut the grass, but until the airport planned improvements happen over the next 3-4 years, we will have what we have. When completed, though, it will be a much larger area, easily accessible, and accommodating to small wheels.

Here is what you can consider and hopefully choose to share for our very diligent and intentional planning to rebuild Homebuilt Parking:

? We have not only moved the area, but are re-claiming some areas, moving campgrounds and car parking so that the new area can actually EXPAND
? Your new location is an advertised location that people can come and enjoy, both aviators and drive-in spectators alike, with convenient tram access
? Your area will be accessible at all times during the shows
? We?re putting you in a place that with the rest of the destination display areas along with Light Plane, Vintage, and Warbirds instead of isolated by yourselves
? You are less than ? the distance from the hangar/Core area than Homebuilt aircraft are that attend Oshkosh
? You will be able to camp by your aircraft
? The new area will eventually allow for MORE vendors to have exhibits in close proximity to homebuilt aircraft parking

What I have tried to do here is address your direct concerns first. Now, I?d like to speak to why homebuilts are more important to us than ever. SUN ?n FUN, the event you know, is the largest fundraiser for the Aerospace Center for Excellence (ACE). Right on the grounds is a 14-building STEM education complex that provides classroom and laboratory space for the entire community, including high schools, local colleges and universities. In fact, the Central Florida Aerospace Academy, a free PUBLIC high school, is one of the 14 buildings I mentioned. Our mission is to Engage, Educate, and Accelerate the Next Generation of Aerospace Professionals, and we directly visit and host over 50,000 students each year. We provide scholarships, not only for flight training, but for college as well, and have given out millions of dollars in support of these programs over the past 7 years from funds generated by the Fly-In and over 90 other events held on the campus each year. We have our Lakeland Aero Club, the largest high school flying club in the world, also occupying one of those 14 buildings. The strip you know as Paradise City is actually KLAL RWY 8/26, managed, maintained and utilized full time by students.

Here is a video on that program. Please note what the student, Katie, is doing in the opening scene: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aptoc20RXr0bhbFS...nqBcQ?e=GdPlxj

They have already restored two Piper Cubs, and are currently restoring 3 Taylorcraft, a Cessna 150, and are building a scratch-built motor glider. I?d also like to direct you to a video on the Zenith 750 they are building to support Able Flight, a program that allows those with disabilities to learn to fly.

You can see it here (Large files, may take a moment to load): https://1drv.ms/v/s!Aptoc20RXr0bhbFS...nqBcQ?e=GdPlxj

Finally, we will be featuring a beautiful Acrosport II, built by the late Al Smith from Valdosta, GA, in this year?s SUN ?n FUN. We will be flying the aircraft in the daily shows and have it on display in the new homebuilt area for people to come and enjoy. Al built it in 1982 and it won Best in Show at both OSH and SNF in several years. The family loves SnF and donated it to us so that Al?s work and passion would not be lost. The aircraft will be displayed in the museum, but we intend to keep it flying as well. We take our responsibility to keep his legacy alive very seriously, and we are using this aircraft to begin a new chapter in SUN ?n FUN?s showcase and appreciation of experimental aircraft.

(n28rb), hopefully you can see that your concerns are not foreign to us, in fact, we had them first in order to make the move you ultimately didn?t like. But the move is necessary to get where we are going as an event and as an organization. This next move will place you slightly farther from where you were, but as you?ll see if you choose to return over the next several years, it will not be in ?the middle of nowhere?, but in the ?middle of the action?, because the event space is changing around it. The changes are not overnight, and will take a lot of doing to achieve. But we?ll get there. Homebuilt more than any other aircraft type inspire people with the notion that they can achieve something with hard work, diligence, and teamwork. Perhaps you?d like to volunteer and help us?

Sincerely,

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

Can't wait to have you, Dave! Thanks for your support!

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

John,

Thanks for the positive feedback! We are very proud of our Homebuilt Camping area. That has not changed, fortunately, and we have only intentions to improve it along with the non-camping Homebuilt area. In fact, we hope to incorporate it into our final new Homebuilt area when it gets implemented over the next year. BTW, I used to manage the flight school at KEKY many moons ago, and lived in the Birmingham area for about 7 years. Many friends and family there, great flying community!

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

Bobby, please see my response to n28rb's post. Our Homebuilt service and accommodations have indeed been an issue over the past several years, but his assessment is very flawed and misrepresents us entirely. I would be happy to discuss anything you'd like with regard to coming to SUN 'n FUN; my contact info is below.

Thanks,

Greg

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

SUN 'n FUN is ON!
 

Larry, I think you already have your answer, but to "reinforce from the source", yes, SUN 'n FUN is proceeding as scheduled.



Thanks,

Greg

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

Unfortunately, we can't allow bicycles, but there are many, many tram stops, and EVERY volunteer with a golf cart is required to offer you a ride when they are going in the direction you are walking. With so many pedestrians and aircraft in the mix together, we have to limit the faster moving modes of transport so that people don't gt run over. You can imaging what it might look like if there were a few thousand bicycles trying to navigate our display areas in the midst of all those people and aircraft. I find that in the more congested areas it is much faster to walk anyway. Here is our FAQ page on our website: https://www.flysnf.org/guest-services/faq/. If I can be of service, please reach out!

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

Hi, Fred,

Unfortunately, we are going to have to make that area an operations only area this year and in the future. Between new FAA restrictions on the proximity of spectators to flying aircraft and the fact that there will be a taxiway through that area by the middle of 2021, it just isn't viable anymore. Tell you what, though. If you will reach out and give me your dates, Let's talk about how you can help us show exactly what you said about homebuilts being critical to our success. I agree, and have some ideas on featuring some pristine homebuilt aircraft that you may be able to help me with.

Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

We agree, Bill!


Greg Gibson
Chief Marketing Officer / Director of Air Operations
Airshow Director
ggibson@flysnf.org

Another nice T-shirt would be one that says:

"Keep Calm and Build On."

I sure am glad John (pilotyoung) and Greg Gibson got this thread back into positive territory. Somehow I was falling for the spin from the nattering nabobs of negativity (remember that one?) and beginning to have second thoughts about making the "long trip".
Wife & I have always had a great time at SnF and look forward to it every year. Greg's explanation certainly erased any doubts & it's full speed ahead to KLAL again.
Hope to see you all there.
Bob & Carol (and Benny Jet Fighter, our dog)

I too appreciate the positive views, not that anyone's negative views are invalid, but good to get balanced reviews.

Still have the coronavirus to think about though. I'm not worried about the virus itself, but I would be flying commercial and I don't want to get stuck somewhere quarantined for two weeks. Lol

"SUN ?n FUN, the event you know, is the largest fundraiser for the Aerospace Center for Excellence (ACE)."

In the 24 years I've attended I thought it was a fly-in and get-together with a few things added. I guess I thought so because I first went there to look at homebuilts, pick up odds and ends for my builts and meet up with old friends. Sure, the air shows were interesting the first few years.

But things change and I must decide whether the added inconveniences outweigh the few reasons to attend what had become an annual event for me.

Finn

The good part is, Finn, is that we don't want our education cause to be any reason NOT to attend. I'd welcome your input on those inconveniences you mention so that regardless of the mission our event supports, your interests and the things you like to attend for are addressed. If you're coming, the support we need is handled. You should be entertained and enjoy the event, so please let me know how we can help.

Greg

Are there provisions for bicycles to be used outside the grounds?

sorry greg i just cannot let that one go with out comment. as to my assessment being very flawed, let me just cut a few lines out of your responses.

from post #24.

Second, I'd like to acknowledge that I agree with n28rb's assessment that homebuilt accommodations have deteriorated at SUN 'n FUN over the past several years, and that the current situation is less than ideal

and from the response to my e mail:

What you experienced last year was temporary while we work with the airport to make the grounds more usable for the reasons you point out in your email. We expect to move the area yet again this year to what will become its permanent home, adjacent to our Paradise City area not far from where it was this past year.


since the maps on the web site have not been updated, i can only assume that what I was told last year is true and that the area has been moved farther south.

What you dealt with last year with regard to ground quality will not likely improve much this year,

so buy your own pen, you admit that the conditions for homebuilts has deteriorated, nothing has been done to change that this year except move it farther away, and doing nothing to improve the rough ground conditions that exist in that area.

so where are my views on this flawed? you admit it has gotten worse the past years, nothing is really changing this year, but if i keep coming and spending money, it will improve in a few years?

as the saying goes, "show me the money" fix the problems, and I and my aircraft, and my money may come back, but until then promises that it will get better will not get my business.

The reason I took the time to join the forum and learn about what everyone's concerns are is because we do care. To follow your lead of quoting excerpts, your comment "but I got the vibe that they don't care and don't really want us anyway." is what is flawed and what I am responding to. It is going to take a long time for us to get your area right. We have only 24 full time employees, 10 of which are maintenance. That leaves me pretty much on my own to convince an airport to modify its grounds, which we have no rights to, for a purpose that will be used one week per year with money they nor we have for the project. "Show me the money", you say.

I listen to the complaints and try to act responsibly and with concern, and I took great exception to your comment that "they" don't care.

I, Sir, am "they".

I took over 2 hours writing you that response. I don't have time for that sort of response to things I don't care about. I do care, and I'll continue to poll this fine group you have led me to in order to find good ideas and guidance to get it done, and maybe find some help from a few willing volunteers, which have also evaporated. People seem to think that event just sits there waiting for you to show up each year, and that everything will be just like you left it. We appropriate an active AOA on a Part 139 Commercial airport and turn it into a fairgrounds for a week, then we give it back. It's HARD. We have over 3500 volunteers, but only about 100 show up prior to the week before. I'll keep slugging, though, because I love it. Your area has been moved. It will move again. The area we have set aside for homebuilt will be great, and the people who come to enjoy it may not even know another area ever existed, but we'll treat them like they deserve and show them that we believe homebuilders are the most professional and dedicated aviators because they take the time and have the passion to BUILD what they fly. We need more kids to learn what that kind of dedication, patience, planning, and follow through is all about. No better group to learn it from. Thank you for introducing me to this forum. I like it here, think I'll see what I can learn.

Cool, and welcome! So which RV are you going to build? :D