Buying a built RV-12
 

Been thinking hard about buying a built E-LSA RV-12, something with at a minimum a Skyview Touch with ADSB In and wheel pants, probably 2015 or newer.

I'll probably have to do the new nose gear and possibly replace the fork. Without paint probably preferred, if I want color on it, I'd probably wrap it myself with DuPont 2080 Vinyl.

Problem is the volatility of the stock market the past two weeks and what I'd need to liquidate to get the plane.

Unsettling times to be buying a plane.

Things I need to be on the lookout for in a used RV-12 when shopping?

You ought to check into any number of Eagle's Nest or STEM projects going on throughout the country. Might even be able to customize to your preference(s) prior to completion.

Buying RV-12
 

NinerBikes: This may be of interest to you. I am assisting the widow of a friend to sell RV-12 built by her husband who unfortunately died of natural causes very shortly after completing the airplane that he had worked on for several years. It does have complete paint, red with white trim. Aircraft is in virtually new condition and was flown only 65 hours before his untimely death. It has the Skyview, uncertain about the ADB-s, and is definitely without wheel pants. Aircraft has always been hangered, no damage, very well built in my opinion (have built RV 6 @ 7A.) Nose fork modification has not been complied with, but could be done here as part of price consideration if desired.
There is an East Coast/West Coast factor here as the aircraft is located in North Carolina and it appears you are in California. Also understand your considerations regarding volatile stock market and that may not be resolved soon. However, it has been my observation that these planes can be bought completed for not too much more that the coast of the kit, and flown the day of purchase. No waiting!! Please reply if you have interest and I will provide photos and try to answer any questions.
Regards, Giles

N # and is it E-LSA or E-AB ? email address is in my profile I believe.

Your comment came as I was making up an ad to sell mine, N756TS! It is an ELSA, built and continuously owned by an A&P, times around 150 hrs, Skyview, wheel pants etc. We are offering paint (is is unpainted now), fresh annual, and delivery if needed. Located in the lower Rio Grande Valley.

Buying RV-12
 

Your email address is not listed in your profile. Please check your private messages. If you will please let me have your email we can communicate more easily. Aircraft N# is 246RV (add the numerals). Will advise other requested information shortly. :D

If you click on "NinerBikes" user name in his post, the option of "Send an e-mail to NinerBikes" will drop down.

Jim

Thinking I should be buying stock instead of a plane about now.

Summer of 2019, two RV-12's 55 hours and 78 hours respectively, painted , completed in 2016, sold for $60k at Corona Airport, CA and $58k near Portland Oregon, in July and August. First one took 6 weeks of advertising to sell, the second one at $58k sold in 5 weeks.

Those are west coast birds, I've no idea what the market is on the east coast or pricing, currently. I do know the stock market has some tremendous buys right now, enough to make some $$$ and more than cover what I might pay for a RV-12 in 6 or 8 months.

Both planes had Skyview Touch systems, ADS-B Out and In, in them with 472's , Auto Pilot, additional AP panel switches, GTR-200's, wheel pants, interiors, and nice paint, one built by a former Air Force Colonel, the other a Vietnam Vet that served as a pilot, not sure which branch of the service.

A "Bird" in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush...

Sounds like a good reason to not buy an RV-12. :rolleyes:

Talked himself right out of it, huh?:)

You can't fly stock or index funds, but they cure can crash spectacularly.

:eek: Sometimes they soar, if you bottom fish.

I've seen lots of ads that describe the seller as "motivated," but I've never been able to translate that description into an actual number. What asking price would indicate a seller is "motivated"?

If the plane being sold
- was a 2018 RV-12 ELSA
- with a Rotax 912ULS engine
- and dual Dynon Skyview HDXs
- and an autopilot with panel-mounted control knobs
- and panel-mounted ALT, BARO and HDG/TRK knobs
- was painted all white with tail number decals
- had wheel pants
- and a Koger cockpit sunshade

and if the plane came with the following additional equipment
- a Minimax battery-powered tug
- a Cleveland Aircraft Tool light weight airplane cover
- a Bruce's heavy weight aircraft cover with lockable cables
- cowl plugs
- a cylinder compression testing device
- carburator balancing equipment

and
- the plane had 195 Hobbs hours
- all Service Bulletins had been complied with (including the nose wheel fork) except the recent nose gear SB, but the gear has been ordered and will be shipped May 1, so it could be installed during
- the plane's next Condition Inspection which is due by June 1, 2020.

I've been contacted by a few people with planes for sale.

The situation, in every case, is convoluted, no clean ownership or being represented by the owner. Always someone having to present offers to someone else.

Not so much interested in a "story" plane.

If you're the original owner, that would probably be a better arrangement.

If it has no paint, and no AP, that's fine too, but I expect it to be reflected in the price, as I am not interested in something painted with automotive grade paint, when so much of the paint job is for labor.

?Motivated?
 

Nicely equipped plane. Motivated seems to mean ?an exceptional aircraft at below market price? LOL

Define market price. It sure isn't advertised price, lately.

Market Price
 

What a plane sells for can change depending on demand. I sold a nice flying RV-4 a few years ago after listing it for a year. I had made several needed repairs after buying it to fly that included rewiring the aircraft, upgrading the panel and propeller. After a year and advertising on multiple platforms I decided to let it go for far less than I had in it. It was a joy to fly and taught me a ton. I got the value out of it I wanted.

Fast forward three years, the sellers market we had at the end of 2019 saw that same RV-4 sell for thousands more, a very short time after being listed, with more hours on the engine.

True ?value? is what a person is willing to pay for something. There is a generally accepted rule of thumb for value based on various RVs and their configurations based on historical sales numbers.

Pilot bank has a ?book value? they will loan against, for example. RV model, engine, hours, C/S or FP, avionics, ADS-B, etc all play into what make a plane ?worth? a certain amount and make it easy or hard to sell. They have an assessment team put a value on an airplane.

An airplane purchase is often an emotional decision if one isn?t careful. As of February 2020 it could be argued that a few people, maybe many, were paying well over ?market value? for RVs without even a prebuy for fear some other emotional buyer would snap it up first.

I did five serious inquiries in 2019 (logbook reviews and detailed pictures with my A&P), three prebuys in person, then bought an airplane. I found a great value with all the features that were on my list of must haves last October. The seller found me.

Best of luck! It?s a learning curve for sure. People here are willing to help.

Guess i need to find that seller that got the value out of it, while it was in their possession, or perhaps, in one case, usage.

You made your point, eloquently, FlyinTiger. Maybe I should revisit the idea in another 6 months to a year, it worked well enough for you, doing so.

Other considerations... Waiting a year makes you another year older and one year closer to being "too old to fly". Gas prices will be lower for foreseeable future with economic crisis. Aircraft insurance premiums probably raise again next year.

Fed Gov is passing out $1200 checks. That will cover my fuel expenses for entire year.

I want to be chief pilot for this guy...

Fly now, with friends!
 

The trick is to fly with friends and participate any way you can while searching for the ?right plane? to come along. I encourage people to ride with friends and go to events. The RV community will come through for you Niner (and others interested) be friendly and persistent.

The best sales seem to happen before the plane is even advertised.

This is a productive discussion. It may help potential buyers this flying season.

This is normally good advice and a practice I have participated in for some 50 years. As of last week my wife and I agreed solo flight only with no stops. COVID-19 has brought close proximity to an end for now. Pretty much sheltering in place and extreme social distancing.

Been doing just this... about 120 hours in 15 months, I was informed, today. My name keeps showing up in his log book, weekly. He likes the company and, perhaps, my problem solving abilities on the EFIS, as there's been plenty of hangar time, too.

We all have a finite number of days left to fly, and for older pilots, they are quickly dwindling!

I like your mug, J3, but probably not for reasons you would agree with!😝

Wondering now where the motivated sellers are hiding?

Perhaps just hiding from people like you. :-)

Thanks for cheering us old farts up.:(

By the way . . . great looking little airplane!:)

Yea, you better stay away from that nasty "automotive" paint.:cool:

Single Stage vs Automotive Basecoat/Clearcoat
 

Yeah - look here for those horrible results using "automotive paint." And the reasons for it. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=67760

I believe DuPont Imron is aviation grade paint, and priced accordingly, if that's what you used on your airplane. It is a very "rubberized" paint and quite flexible, perfect for thin aluminum skins that might oscillate or vibrate on plane surfaces, due to wind buffeting.

Automotive grade paints are not designed to be that flexible, unless additives or different grades of paint are used on flexible plastic bumper skins.

I am interested in a "raw" bird due to lower costs and not paying 9.5% sales tax or usage tax on a paint job here in California. For my purposes, no one sees, or even cares about what it looks like, when I pull it out of the hangar to go flying. A little bit of wrap on the cowling and the wheel paints and maybe the vert and horizontal stabs would satisfy me and my needs, so the raw bird is my preference. Certainly more cost effective.

Utility is what I am seeking. Like a tool, or a truck instead of a fancy car.

Piper uses Imron.. sure, they're no Van's.. but I think they know what they're doing :D

You're raising non-issues. There are tens of thousands of experimental and certified aircraft happily painted with plain ol' auto paint which have never experienced cracking problems. Not recommended for fabric covered aircraft, but not an issue for aluminum and/or composite aircraft.

Paint, for me, is a non issue. I've no desire for it, at all, unless it's interior primer for corrosion purposes.