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-   -   Hangar Availability Poll (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=179410)

Rallylancer122 02-09-2020 09:03 PM

I'm fortunate that I currently live in a hanger friendly area, however in the past that wasn't always the case. I found a little face time helped move things along.

The first thing is to go visit the airport and hang out. When I lived on the NE side of Detroit I was told when I called the local airports no hangers were available, but when I drove down there and hung out for a while, suddenly Jack heard that Bob might have some space. Bob didn't, but other Bob did, etc... and within a few days I had a hanger. Local EAA chapters can really help here.

Recently we looked at moving to the Florida coast (it snowed 6 inches today in Wisconsin, can you blame me?) and the same thing, phone calls yielded no hangers. So I went down and talked to one of the airport managers. When he found out I had an RV and a biplane, not another Cherokee or Cirrus, suddenly that wait list went from 2 years to a few months. And he went further by saying, "If you bring your plane down, I'm sure we'll find someplace to put it until a hanger opens up."

RV's are small. They'll fit into corners and under wings. I currently have my 8 stuffed into a single 40' hanger with my C170. I wouldn't want to do this forever, but if it was that or watching some guy's airplane sitting outside I'd make the space.

Be friendly, be creative, be flexible, and be around.

DEM

ty1295 02-09-2020 09:54 PM

I can only speak for local, but they seem to be their own worst enemy. Just last week we called on a vacant building on airport grounds. (no taxiway to airport). We were told it would have to be aviation related (makes sense), my buddy calling mentioned a friend might want to rent it for airplane part sales, which they responded with, "That won't work".

I think the economy does help though. A few years ago the airport wanted to rent out empty hangars for general storage, now we have over a year waiting list. Plenty of room to build more, but the red tape, short term land lease prevent anybody with a brain and financial common sense to venture into it.

RV7A Flyer 02-09-2020 11:15 PM

At my field, the problem isn't lack of hangars...it's hangars that don't have airplanes in them and the mysterious "waiting list" that never seems to get shorter. I was extremely fortunate to grab a really nice hangar at precisely the right time, but I think it was luck...others have had all sorts of issues getting the hangar owner to move out non-aviation users to make way for aircraft (private owner; many of the hangars on the field are privately owned; there are also county-owned hangars, but the same problem seems to exist with those). People get told there's a waiting list that's years long, all the while hangars are sitting there filled with cars, or a boat, or RVs (the driving kind), furniture, you name it. Even businesses operating on the sly.

Airport management doesn't seem to care about abiding by the Grant Provisions for aeronautical use of hangars and enforcing the rules on either their own county-owned hangars or the privately-owned ones.

I know a few guys who got hangars by starting out nice, and then eventually escalating the issue to the point of intimating that their next call would be to the FAA. But who wants to have to do that?

Northernliving 02-10-2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillL (Post 1406703)
Hangars seem to be short on VAF and other forums. This poll is to see if it is isolated or widespread. The question is why? Is there no profit in new hangar space or is the market demand projected to decline along with airport revenue.

I waited for nearly 4 years and it has been 3 since and no hangars have come open. There are some 50 yr old with dirt floors, but not a concrete floor and individually enclosed.

I found an interesting area for relocation and was told the hangar availability was 5 yrs. That might be half my remaining flying life.


Sort of confused by the poll. Wouldn't any waiting list imply "No hangars available, 100% occupancy"

Hangars are pretty dificult to find in the Northeast where I've looked (Jackman Maine, Bethel Maine, and the greater Boston area). I feel fortunate to have one at a resonable price.

JonJay 02-10-2020 07:44 AM

Just looked at taking over a vacant hangar/shop, 10,000sqft, where I have a T - hangar I use for transient purposes (second home). The county owned airport will not allow any transfer of ownership. When the ground lease is up, the building becomes county property. Not much incentive to build new.
I am also in the throws of looking at developing a hangar at another city owned airport, but I doubt it will pencil out. At 20-35 cents a sqft, when industrial leases can fetch triple that or more, with not much more investment, it just doesn?t make sense.
Currently, in our area, a hangar type building will cost at least $1 a square foot in construction including land acquisition. Throw out the land acquisition and let?s say you can place a hangar on leased ground for half that (doubtful), but still, it doesn?t pencil. Not even close. Sad.

scard 02-10-2020 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonJay (Post 1406839)
Just looked at taking over a vacant hangar/shop, 10,000sqft, where I have a T - hangar I use for transient purposes (second home). The county owned airport will not allow any transfer of ownership. When the ground lease is up, the building becomes county property. Not much incentive to build new.

And there you go. It is SOP, called a reversion clause. I'm the owner of one such legal agreement. It is a real downer.

crabandy 02-10-2020 09:17 AM

Luckily a hard working board member was successful in building 10 new T Hangars at my home airport about 40 miles from Kansas City. They?ve been full from completion till now as well as the original 4 T hangars, our waiting list has been 1-3 years.
I was also on the list at a hangar near the outskirts of KC, 15 years before I ever got a call and at 17 years I became #1. I was offered several of the older dirt floor/sliding door hangars and open hangars but never full concrete and a bifold door. I didn?t need the hangar and never have plans to move back but still reluctantly removed my name from the list I had waited so long for.

N941WR 02-10-2020 09:29 AM

Location, Location, Location
 
Wilgrove Airport (8A6) in Charlotte, NC just notified its tenants that they are closing and that the tenants have 90 days to get out.

Charlotte only has one small airport left in the county (Mecklenburg) and that is private. CLT and its Class B airspace covers most of the county.

Outside of that, it is a long drive to the surrounding airports and they are all full, other than tiedowns.

Major bummer for them!

Kent Ashton 02-10-2020 09:38 AM

I blame the lack of hangars at federally-assisted public airports on the FAA. These airports have FAA-approved Airport Master Plans that sometimes show dozens of lots identified for hangars but if you apply to build one, the airport sponsor requires a first-class $100K+ structure, then requires you to agree to surrender it to the sponsor without compensation in 25-30 years. The FAA is fine with this and so, apparently, are most pilots who fail to complain to their congressmen.

Congress could easily write-in legislation that would change the surrender rules just as congress changed the hangar-work rules for experimentals and others a couple years ago. They just have to hear from constituients.

Jrskygod 02-10-2020 09:45 AM

Reversion Clause
 
Our airport is city owned and was gifted to them by the government. It was a WWll auxiliary field. The major development to the airport has been primarily by government funds. There has been no private development in over 50 years. The city will not spend the money to build hangars. Private developers have looked at the feasibility of hangar development and although the numbers work out the reversionary clause has always been the issue that has prevented them moving forward.

At our airport the clause stated that reversion applies at 20 years and an additional 10 years can be had by agreement of both parties at the end of the first term. Additionally change of ownership can only occur with permission of the city. With these provisions there is no incentive for anyone to build hangars and the city cannot understand why and is unwilling to change.

Additionally for those that are have hangar space the leases are only for one year terms and it is not uncommon for a lease to not be renewed if the city thinks they might have a customer they think is better for the airport. As a matter of fact they kicked out a flight school maintenance shop that had been in operation for several years to rent to an air ambulance company. The air ambulance company never occupied the hangar and never paid a dime in rent for a year before their lease was terminated. Another example was three aircraft owners' lease that shared a hangar were not renewed and instead the hangar was rented to customs for a helicopter. The helicopter was in the hangar for maybe two months and has not been seen again. The helicopter was relocated and the government pays for an empty hangar. The city is unwilling to not renew their lease and allow the displaced long term tenants to lease the hangar again.

It seems that local airports around the country that are owned and operated by government entities like cities and counties all seem to have the same or similar issues.


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