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Building a 3B. All slow build. Slider (10 months for that). Used engine that I rebuilt myself. New cyl Assm. Custom exhaust by Vetterman. A work of art. Custom motor mount. Painted everything myself. PPG. Steam gauges. Fold down GPS Becker radio and txp. Simple lighting. B&C starter and alt. Wood prop. Saber ext. another work of art. Made custom seat with three densities of foam. Will have it covered in leather. Many custom features that just took time.
Guessing about 4K hours so far, probably more. Custom glass work took ten times longer than I thought. Have really enjoyed the challenge Have 45K invested. Not including tools that I had from a 6 kit Bob Grigsby J3 Cub flying regularly. One of the benefits of living in Kalifornia 3B. Will be starting engine in about a month. What is a month in RV build time? |
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With a new Aerosport Power engine, new Catto, and new Dynon D180 based day/night VFR cross country panel, I found Vans cost estimator + 10% to be right on for me, but then I intentionally avoided (almost) every upgrade that was available, especially those that added weight without adding performance. Almost 8 years into flying and I still get a grin every time I fly! :) |
How much is spent is directly related to what engine/avionics you deem acceptable.
The above is very much tied to the value when done also. Hard to compare someone using bare bones/used avionics and a mid time used engine -vs- brand new engine, full new EFIS. For my RV9a, somewhere around 90k mark, but adding things up didn't advance the project any further so that number is just a guess. I can make more money if needed, I can't go back and redo a choice in building I would regret for the time I own it as easy. |
These numbers (and of course certified prices) are the key factor driving used RV values.
So, be of good cheer. Most of us thought our new RVs were too expensive back when, but now a nice one brings a very reasonable percentage of original cost. You're not spending too much money (click your heels together and repeat after me...), you're just parking it. Quote:
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Free aeroplane
I paid for all of the aircraft kits and parts as I built and only as I could afford it at the time.
It owes me nothing and now I have a free aeroplane. It really is the best free aircraft that I have ever owned. I intend to enjoy it for a long time. Priceless !!!! |
My RV7 build estimator is up to 165k, and it's missing quite a few prices for components. We've budgetted 200k to make up for anything we missed in the estimate.
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I had a good friend who started building his RV7 at exactly the same time that I started building my RV7A. We did a lot of riveting together on both aircraft. The fit-outs on the two aircraft were virtually identical and they both progressed at a similar pace. I kept meticulous records of every single purchase down to the last sheet of sandpaper...and he kept no records at all (he said he didn?t want to stress himself out by knowing the actual cost). At a particular point in the build when I had $130k invested in my project I asked him how much he thought he had spent on his project and he said: ?About $90k?. Both aircraft were virtually identical in features and build progress so I concluded that he was underestimating his real build cost to that point by about $40k. |
All of my receipts went into a file. I just didn?t want to know at the time. Did pay as you go. Thought if I knew the exact amount that was going into it I was afraid of chickening out on the project.
No regrets now. A flying airplane is worth more than the sum of the parts (in my mind). A kit, not so much. |
Value of time
I wonder about what is the value of our own time, if we really want to know what is the full cost of a completed build.
Assuming between 2000 to 4000 hours of builder time, valued at between $30 and $90 per hour (just rough numbers for the discussion), this would contribute from a low of $60K to a high of $360K to the cost. |
Time=money and money=time. Any cost analysis depends on what is “make” and what is “buy”.
Having said the above, one shall count their time based on how much surplus time they have on hand. Say: you can willingly spare 2 hours on a given day just for fun, then it’s just free. Therefore; you got the point. Analyze your costs as per your constraints. I’m no expert, just saying, my 2 cents. Have fun. BTW, I’m an expert of ERP/MRP II and it works for many (if not all) aspects of life. Your “human resource” a measurable resource as well. |
Free
"...you can willingly spare 2 hours on a given day just for fun, then it?s just free..."
Nothing is free; sparing 2 hours on a given day just means that those 2 hours were not used for something else. There is always a cost... |
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I consider the 1300-plus hours of building my -9A to be some of the most enjoyable time of my life. And people pay good money to do things that are enjoyable! Maybe I should subtract $50/hour to arrive at the total cost of my RV. :) When time comes to sell (if ever), I'll be more than happy to recoup 75% of component costs. |
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EDIT: Wait, what...1300+ hours...jeez thats quick :eek: |
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But now, I do stuff for just fun, not for money. Don’t we all want to build RV’s for fun? Who cares the time lost. At the end of the day, when you finish the plane, if you don’t like it, you sell it and retrieve your cost+. And I won’t sweat it cause I was having fun. I don’t know you therefore your constrains may be different, :D |
Nah...
We are probably more alike than different. In fact, I have too many hobbies and not enough time for them all. That was the basis for my comment. Those two hours spared are just two hours taken from something else...in fact I am already planning my next large project, to be started once the -10 is out of the workshop. Couple that with all of the little side projects that come up, well, not enough time in the day...
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I'm in the process of building a new Superior engine and buying a new CS prop for a flying -8. The price of this is up over 20% in the past 2 years from when I originally quoted it out. It does seem that there has been some price inflation going on. Apparently small single engine aircraft and parts aren't in the CPI! :mad:
This is a very enjoyable hobby - not much different cost-wise than boating or a country club membership (at least that's what I've explained to my bride).:D |
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RV-7A, tipper, slow build. Fuselage mostly done and working on canopy/panel/wiring. Currently 1438 hours into the build.
Original budget ($110K) $30K for kits, wires, hardware $30K for avionics $40K for engine, prop, and firewall forward $5K for tools $5K for finishing touches, paint, etc. Reality, so far ($56K) $33K in kits, metal, wires and hardware $15K in avionics, and other aftermarket goodies $8K in tools and consumables Anticipated future costs ($60K) $15K in remaining avionics $37K IO-360 engine + Hartzell CS prop $6K Firewall forward $2K Interior $?K Paint $?K Square-up with the California Tax Man So, I'm a little over budget for the kits, on budget for avionics, over for the power plant, and a little over for tools. Not too bad, really. The totals always look painful in the spreadsheet but I'm a believer in planning and then rigorously tracking costs so you can take steps throughout to stay on target. As opposed to just opening my wallet and letting Stein and Lycoming have their way with it. |
Kits = $29,752
My complete kit was under 10K, of course no FW forward existed then. Engine was 16.2K All I can say is I'm glad I build when I did. |
Time vs. Money trade off
With a 14 year build time with doing basically everything yourself or with friends, you can get in the air with a 7a and an 0360 A1A for less than 50K.....if you stick to the plans...and keep if VFR.
Bought a timed out engine that came with a carb and mags, sent out key components for yellow tagging, and had a friend who is an A&P to help with the overhaul and provide guidance, did a basic skyview system (no auto pilot servos yet), got a basic Garmin SL 40 com radio, basic Bob Knuckles Aero Electric electrical system with fuses, Catto prop, built own LED nav lights, and painted just the fiberglass parts, and have free 3rd time hand me down seats.... Key thing is that this is educational....Made lots of great friends along the way, and your fun per $ ratio will be off the chart! |
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