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-   -   How Much is Your Build Costing? Mine is Currently at... (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=177984)

RV3Bob 12-24-2019 08:58 PM

Building a 3B. All slow build. Slider (10 months for that). Used engine that I rebuilt myself. New cyl Assm. Custom exhaust by Vetterman. A work of art. Custom motor mount. Painted everything myself. PPG. Steam gauges. Fold down GPS Becker radio and txp. Simple lighting. B&C starter and alt. Wood prop. Saber ext. another work of art. Made custom seat with three densities of foam. Will have it covered in leather. Many custom features that just took time.

Guessing about 4K hours so far, probably more. Custom glass work took ten times longer than I thought.

Have really enjoyed the challenge

Have 45K invested. Not including tools that I had from a 6 kit

Bob Grigsby
J3 Cub flying regularly. One of the benefits of living in Kalifornia
3B. Will be starting engine in about a month. What is a month in RV build time?

alpinelakespilot2000 12-24-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceh (Post 1395111)
I did do just about every upgrade that was available. Van's cost estimator is woefully unrealistic.

Not sure if you made the connection, Bruce, but the first sentence above explains the opinion expressed in the second. :rolleyes:

With a new Aerosport Power engine, new Catto, and new Dynon D180 based day/night VFR cross country panel, I found Vans cost estimator + 10% to be right on for me, but then I intentionally avoided (almost) every upgrade that was available, especially those that added weight without adding performance. Almost 8 years into flying and I still get a grin every time I fly! :)

ty1295 12-24-2019 10:21 PM

How much is spent is directly related to what engine/avionics you deem acceptable.

The above is very much tied to the value when done also.

Hard to compare someone using bare bones/used avionics and a mid time used engine -vs- brand new engine, full new EFIS.

For my RV9a, somewhere around 90k mark, but adding things up didn't advance the project any further so that number is just a guess. I can make more money if needed, I can't go back and redo a choice in building I would regret for the time I own it as easy.

DanH 12-25-2019 07:04 AM

These numbers (and of course certified prices) are the key factor driving used RV values.

So, be of good cheer. Most of us thought our new RVs were too expensive back when, but now a nice one brings a very reasonable percentage of original cost. You're not spending too much money (click your heels together and repeat after me...), you're just parking it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLS (Post 1395125)
No earthly good can come from these evil calculations.

Right on brother. At checkout time, I'm not going to regret a single nickel.

Ian Coates 12-25-2019 12:11 PM

Free aeroplane
 
I paid for all of the aircraft kits and parts as I built and only as I could afford it at the time.

It owes me nothing and now I have a free aeroplane.

It really is the best free aircraft that I have ever owned.

I intend to enjoy it for a long time.

Priceless !!!!

agent4573 12-28-2019 03:57 AM

My RV7 build estimator is up to 165k, and it's missing quite a few prices for components. We've budgetted 200k to make up for anything we missed in the estimate.

climberrn 12-28-2019 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girraf (Post 1394644)
I started my project with a loose breakdown between airframe/powerplant/avionics at (33k/33k/33k) for a rough 100k. I'm also fully expecting some cost creep in there so if I come in around 120k for a 0-360/constant speed prop and decent IFR avionics, I'll be happy.

I'm doing a slow build with no help so my airframe cost is basically Van's cost plus shipping. Probably got about 3k in tooling right now.

Since you could spend as much as you want, its probably only useful to talk about how cheap you could build one. I'd guess you could outfit an RV-7 for about 50-60k if you go basic VFR and a used motor/prop.

Added up my receipts after flying for a few months. Wife said she knew the cost all the time and was ok with it. I was off in my head by about 30K. Had to call the insurance company and increase hull coverage!!

Captain Avgas 12-28-2019 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by climberrn (Post 1395813)
Added up my receipts after flying for a few months. Wife said she knew the cost all the time and was ok with it. I was off in my head by about 30K. Had to call the insurance company and increase hull coverage!!

I?d say this is very typical. Many RV builders have no accurate assessment of the true cost of building their aircraft because they do not keep detailed records of ALL legitimate expenditure. Others just ignore real costs such as tools, consumables, transport, insurance etc etc.
I had a good friend who started building his RV7 at exactly the same time that I started building my RV7A. We did a lot of riveting together on both aircraft. The fit-outs on the two aircraft were virtually identical and they both progressed at a similar pace. I kept meticulous records of every single purchase down to the last sheet of sandpaper...and he kept no records at all (he said he didn?t want to stress himself out by knowing the actual cost). At a particular point in the build when I had $130k invested in my project I asked him how much he thought he had spent on his project and he said: ?About $90k?. Both aircraft were virtually identical in features and build progress so I concluded that he was underestimating his real build cost to that point by about $40k.

climberrn 12-28-2019 05:09 PM

All of my receipts went into a file. I just didn?t want to know at the time. Did pay as you go. Thought if I knew the exact amount that was going into it I was afraid of chickening out on the project.

No regrets now. A flying airplane is worth more than the sum of the parts (in my mind). A kit, not so much.

PaulvS 12-28-2019 06:58 PM

Value of time
 
I wonder about what is the value of our own time, if we really want to know what is the full cost of a completed build.

Assuming between 2000 to 4000 hours of builder time, valued at between $30 and $90 per hour (just rough numbers for the discussion), this would contribute from a low of $60K to a high of $360K to the cost.

Nedimbek 12-29-2019 06:05 AM

Time=money and money=time. Any cost analysis depends on what is “make” and what is “buy”.

Having said the above, one shall count their time based on how much surplus time they have on hand. Say: you can willingly spare 2 hours on a given day just for fun, then it’s just free.

Therefore; you got the point. Analyze your costs as per your constraints.

I’m no expert, just saying, my 2 cents.
Have fun.

BTW, I’m an expert of ERP/MRP II and it works for many (if not all) aspects of life. Your “human resource” a measurable resource as well.

rocketman1988 12-29-2019 07:39 AM

Free
 
"...you can willingly spare 2 hours on a given day just for fun, then it?s just free..."

Nothing is free; sparing 2 hours on a given day just means that those 2 hours were not used for something else. There is always a cost...

Mike S 12-29-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLS (Post 1395125)
No earthly good can come from these evil calculations.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...75&oe=5E9E51BF

gyoung 12-29-2019 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulvS (Post 1395876)
I wonder about what is the value of our own time, if we really want to know what is the full cost of a completed build.

Assuming between 2000 to 4000 hours of builder time, valued at between $30 and $90 per hour (just rough numbers for the discussion), this would contribute from a low of $60K to a high of $360K to the cost.

The value of your time is whatever you want it to be. When I started my first -6 I was a consultant. I started keeping a detailed build log with all times. But when I stared equating my build time to my billable hours I quit logging time. I value my build time at $0 monetarily but priceless in lifestyle value. Your choice.

mfleming 12-29-2019 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 1395977)

Hahaha... that?s great ;)

rightrudder 12-29-2019 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulvS (Post 1395876)
I wonder about what is the value of our own time, if we really want to know what is the full cost of a completed build.

Assuming between 2000 to 4000 hours of builder time, valued at between $30 and $90 per hour (just rough numbers for the discussion), this would contribute from a low of $60K to a high of $360K to the cost.


I consider the 1300-plus hours of building my -9A to be some of the most enjoyable time of my life. And people pay good money to do things that are enjoyable!

Maybe I should subtract $50/hour to arrive at the total cost of my RV. :)

When time comes to sell (if ever), I'll be more than happy to recoup 75% of component costs.

mfleming 12-29-2019 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightrudder (Post 1396033)
I consider the 1300-plus hours of building my -9A to be some of the most enjoyable time of my life. And people pay good money to do things that are enjoyable!

Maybe I should subtract $50/hour to arrive at the total cost of my RV. :)

When time comes to sell (if ever), I'll be more than happy to recoup 75% of component costs.

Very well said

EDIT: Wait, what...1300+ hours...jeez thats quick :eek:

Nedimbek 12-29-2019 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman1988 (Post 1395948)
"...you can willingly spare 2 hours on a given day just for fun, then it’s just free..."

Nothing is free; sparing 2 hours on a given day just means that those 2 hours were not used for something else. There is always a cost...

I have ADD, yeah I’m 63. I don't know what you do, but when Im home I take the dog (Doberman) out for half hour and got to wait wife to show at home which can easily take an hour or an hour and a half. Most people just sit back and relax, instead I just go to the garage and organize stuff or build something, like a WC competition class (F3A) precision aerobatics plane. It takes about 6 month to get one built all from a composite (carbon/Kevlar/glass) basic kit. In the past I designed and built and sold many (25+). One flown to 2. Place in the US Nat’s. And you’re right I made some money in the side.

But now, I do stuff for just fun, not for money. Don’t we all want to build RV’s for fun? Who cares the time lost. At the end of the day, when you finish the plane, if you don’t like it, you sell it and retrieve your cost+. And I won’t sweat it cause I was having fun.

I don’t know you therefore your constrains may be different, :D

rocketman1988 12-30-2019 08:40 AM

Nah...
 
We are probably more alike than different. In fact, I have too many hobbies and not enough time for them all. That was the basis for my comment. Those two hours spared are just two hours taken from something else...in fact I am already planning my next large project, to be started once the -10 is out of the workshop. Couple that with all of the little side projects that come up, well, not enough time in the day...

Northernliving 12-30-2019 09:38 AM

I'm in the process of building a new Superior engine and buying a new CS prop for a flying -8. The price of this is up over 20% in the past 2 years from when I originally quoted it out. It does seem that there has been some price inflation going on. Apparently small single engine aircraft and parts aren't in the CPI! :mad:

This is a very enjoyable hobby - not much different cost-wise than boating or a country club membership (at least that's what I've explained to my bride).:D

rightrudder 12-30-2019 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfleming (Post 1396124)
Very well said

EDIT: Wait, what...1300+ hours...jeez thats quick :eek:

It was a Quik Build kit, which probably saved me a couple of years! :):)

Nedimbek 12-30-2019 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman1988 (Post 1396182)
We are probably more alike than different. In fact, I have too many hobbies and not enough time for them all. That was the basis for my comment. Those two hours spared are just two hours taken from something else...in fact I am already planning my next large project, to be started once the -10 is out of the workshop. Couple that with all of the little side projects that come up, well, not enough time in the day...

I agree. On the other hand, I?m an old school guy and I am a strong believer of Dale Carnegie. :)

Draker 12-31-2019 01:08 AM

RV-7A, tipper, slow build. Fuselage mostly done and working on canopy/panel/wiring. Currently 1438 hours into the build.

Original budget ($110K)

$30K for kits, wires, hardware
$30K for avionics
$40K for engine, prop, and firewall forward
$5K for tools
$5K for finishing touches, paint, etc.

Reality, so far ($56K)

$33K in kits, metal, wires and hardware
$15K in avionics, and other aftermarket goodies
$8K in tools and consumables

Anticipated future costs ($60K)

$15K in remaining avionics
$37K IO-360 engine + Hartzell CS prop
$6K Firewall forward
$2K Interior
$?K Paint
$?K Square-up with the California Tax Man

So, I'm a little over budget for the kits, on budget for avionics, over for the power plant, and a little over for tools. Not too bad, really. The totals always look painful in the spreadsheet but I'm a believer in planning and then rigorously tracking costs so you can take steps throughout to stay on target. As opposed to just opening my wallet and letting Stein and Lycoming have their way with it.

zilik 12-31-2019 04:28 PM

Kits = $29,752

My complete kit was under 10K, of course no FW forward existed then.

Engine was 16.2K

All I can say is I'm glad I build when I did.

Triumph1974 01-14-2020 07:44 PM

Time vs. Money trade off
 
With a 14 year build time with doing basically everything yourself or with friends, you can get in the air with a 7a and an 0360 A1A for less than 50K.....if you stick to the plans...and keep if VFR.

Bought a timed out engine that came with a carb and mags, sent out key components for yellow tagging, and had a friend who is an A&P to help with the overhaul and provide guidance, did a basic skyview system (no auto pilot servos yet), got a basic Garmin SL 40 com radio, basic Bob Knuckles Aero Electric electrical system with fuses, Catto prop, built own LED nav lights, and painted just the fiberglass parts, and have free 3rd time hand me down seats....

Key thing is that this is educational....Made lots of great friends along the way, and your fun per $ ratio will be off the chart!


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