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-   -   FAA Acts To Preserve ADS-B Data Privacy (1090 ES) (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=176658)

Snowflake 12-20-2019 07:47 AM

I'm wondering if Vans' new kit shouldn't have been a wall sign, but an aluminum hat. More durable than tinfoil...

upperdeck 12-20-2019 09:21 AM

Has anyone successfully used this new process on a piston plane? Seems you need a third party number and they are only available from fltplan for turbine aircraft. Not sure about foreflight.

LettersFromFlyoverCountry 12-21-2019 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright (Post 1393520)
The reality (alternately, MY reality) is that I value privacy and see no need for the 7 (?) billion people on earth to know where my airplane is at any given time. Certainly, ATC has a need to know, but beyond that, I only see downsides to that information being public. I can come up with dozens of scenarios (and I guarantee some will come to fruition) where the information can and will be used for less than beneficial purposes.

This gets back to my original question: what scenarios is everyone concerned about (the tracking of a daughter is a complete non-starter for me; that's tinfoil hat stuff, imho)?

There are possibilities and there are probabilities and the assessment of risk requires us to know the difference and the dimension.

The information has been around for years. If someone can provide specific examples of how it has been used against GA owners, including the total number of such instances, it might be easier to determine whether it's worth bothering to worry about .

Murder?

That's an "alrighty then" Homer Simpson, back into the cornfield slowly thread ender.

Kyle Boatright 12-21-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry (Post 1394278)

The information has been around for years. If someone can provide specific examples of how it has been used against GA owners, including the total number of such instances, it might be easier to determine whether it's worth bothering to worry about .

I know of no way to count the instances. But a high profile example of what can happen was the incident a few years ago where Auburn was courting a football coach from another school, and flightaware data (IIRC) was used to embarrass everyone involved.

There are also examples where people have been tracked to locations they didn't want disclosed, either for personal or business reasons. I promise you, Warren Buffet does not want you to know where he is on a given day, nor (sometimes) does AOPA management, for instance. Same with Air Force One. Why? Security. Business insight. Privacy.

PilotjohnS 12-21-2019 08:21 AM

Registration
 
So can I register my homebuilt as a LLC and still get a repairman?s certificate?

Toobuilder 12-21-2019 09:20 AM

Bob, not sure if you have ever been in the military, but those of us that have understand the concept of OPSEC. And some of us are required to be aware of and adhere to some significant security processes due to our employment choices since our military service. I have a pretty extensive document I have to fill out before I go on personal vacation and again when I return documenting to my employer and customers that nothing "unusual" happened. This has been my reality for 30 years and I'm far from alone in this requirement among those on this forum. Bottom line: knowing where your adversary is now and where they will be in the future is a VERY powerful piece of information. Just ask Admiral Yamamoto or Osama bin Laden (sorry, can't because they're DEAD).

The fact that you (or others) can't conceive of a malicious use of the information ADSB presents is likely a testament to your gentle nature. That's a complement. But the reality is that it's also demonstrably naive. Laws have been passed which block car registrations from the public BECAUSE BAD PEOEPLE DO BAD THINGS WITH THAT INFORMATION. This isn't tin foil hat paranoia, it's reality. I work in an industry that exploits this information and I see first hand just how easy it is to use.

You may think that everyone on this forum has your best interest in heart. You may think that people who use aviation tracking data are good people. You might not believe people get killed for less information.

You would be wrong on all counts.

alcladrv 12-21-2019 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotjohnS (Post 1394298)
So can I register my homebuilt as a LLC and still get a repairman?s certificate?

My -7A is actually owned by a corporation I control and I have the repairman's certificate since I built it.

alcladrv 12-21-2019 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toobuilder (Post 1394312)
Bob, not sure if you have ever been in the military, but those of us that have understand the concept of OPSEC. And some of us are required to be aware of and adhere to some significant security processes due to our employment choices since our military service. I have a pretty extensive document I have to fill out before I go on personal vacation and again when I return documenting to my employer and customers that nothing "unusual" happened. This has been my reality for 30 years and I'm far from alone in this requirement among those on this forum. Bottom line: knowing where your adversary is now and where they will be in the future is a VERY powerful piece of information. Just ask Admiral Yamamoto or Osama bin Laden (sorry, can't because they're DEAD).

The fact that you (or others) can't conceive of a malicious use of the information ADSB presents is likely a testament to your gentle nature. That's a complement. But the reality is that it's also demonstrably naive. Laws have been passed which block car registrations from the public BECAUSE BAD PEOEPLE DO BAD THINGS WITH THAT INFORMATION. This isn't tin foil hat paranoia, it's reality. I work in an industry that exploits this information and I see first hand just how easy it is to use.

You may think that everyone on this forum has your best interest in heart. You may think that people who use aviation tracking data are good people. You might not believe people get killed for less information.

You would be wrong on all counts.

Spot on!!!

smokyray 12-21-2019 01:27 PM

Amen brother.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toobuilder (Post 1394312)
).

The fact that you (or others) can't conceive of a malicious use of the information ADSB presents is likely a testament to your gentle nature. That's a complement. But the reality is that it's also demonstrably naive. Laws have been passed which block car registrations from the public BECAUSE BAD PEOEPLE DO BAD THINGS WITH THAT INFORMATION. This isn't tin foil hat paranoia, it's reality. I work in an industry that exploits this information and I see first hand just how easy it is to use.

You may think that everyone on this forum has your best interest in heart. You may think that people who use aviation tracking data are good people. You might not believe people get killed for less information.

You would be wrong on all counts.

Michael,
As a former terrorist hunter/killer I appreciate your service and candor, couldn’t agree more.
Privacy is still an inalienable right guaranteed in the Constitution. My ADSB solution? Its simple, avoidance.
I will simply comply by treating affected ADSB airspace like a SAM ring, stiff arm, for now. ATC still has the option to allow passage, my guess is they will, at first.

Thank God there’s still enough unaffected airspace left (protected by and preserved by brave patriots) here in TX and elsewhere that I can still operate VFR without a flight plan, transponder, ADSB or speak to anyone while piloting an airplane I built myself.

V/R
Smokey

I spent a large portion of my aviation career pursuing some very evil men in a lawless land where malicious intent is personified.This task performed under the mission description “search and destroy,” flying in airspace where you’re not welcome and the natives shoot back and play for keeps. Needless to say, trust is a word I don’t take lightly.

David Paule 12-21-2019 01:56 PM

Being closer to a large city, the hangar I bought lies just under the 30 mile ring, and that's half an hour away from home. I have no choice - ADS-B is required for my planes. Now if they didn't have an electrical system.... but they do.

Dave


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