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-   -   Nitrogen for tires.. (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=17400)

Gary Bricker 04-30-2007 05:59 PM

Gary Bricker
 
Where can I get the regulator and hose for nitro. I can get the bottle at a local welding supply but they were not sure about the regulator and hose.

Larry D 04-30-2007 08:46 PM

COSTCO article isn't accurate!
 
Any knowledgable chemist can tell you that there are statements in the Costco article that are factually incorrect. It is true that rubber is somewhat permeable and gases can leak out through the rubber sidewalls of a tire. However in practice I expect that the most important leak source is either the valve or the failure to seat the bead tightly on an auto tire. Aircraft tires use inner tubes so a leak at the bead can't happen. If you lose air you might want to use the special air retention inner tubes available for aircraft which are especially low in permeablility. The article indicated that oxygen would leak out three to four times as fast as nitrogen. This is just not chemically correct. The molecules are nearly the same size and weight. That means they should diffuse through the slightly porous tire wall at rates that are not very different ( 1.07: 1) with nitrogen the slightly faster. See you basic chemistry text - Graham's Law of Diffusion.

In an auto tire the presence of moisture could promote corrosion of the steel rim. There is no tube in an auto tire normally and the water that could be in air along with the oxygen could cause rust to form on the rim. This is not a problem in aircraft.

The expansion and contraction of nitrogen and oxygen (and all gases for that matter) are the same with temperature.

If you want to spend the money and use nitrogen that is your choice but it is unnecessary.

Larry Dickinson, chemist
RV-9A 160 hours
N95LD with air in the tires

gvgoff99 04-30-2007 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry D
If you want to spend the money and use nitrogen that is your choice but it is unnecessary.

Larry Dickinson, chemist
RV-9A 160 hours
N95LD with air in the tires

I agree with Larry completely and will continue to use "air" but don't want to discourage anyone that wants to feel good about their tires because they used nitrogen. ;)

How readily available is nitrogen away from your regularly used place of inflation might be one question to consider?

Personally, I find that there are enough maintenance items to worry about on an aircraft and do not want to introduce one more. :)

airguy 04-30-2007 09:25 PM

The reason some shops use nitrogen is because it is DRY - moisture promotes bacterial growth on the rubber, which degrades the tube and tire.

Run your air through a dessicant filter, you'll get the same effect.

Fellow Chemist....

osxuser 05-01-2007 10:48 AM

Hmm, I use nitrogen in struts, but never in tires, seems like waste. Airstop tubes when you wear out the tires will take care of the problem. If you ever had a problem.

mlw450802 05-01-2007 11:01 AM

Costco Article
 
Quote:

here is an article explaining Costco's rationale.
This sort of falls into the category of the New Science by Al Gore.
The media falls for it hook line and sinker and, before you know it, it becomes "fact".
It reminds me of many appropriate sayings I learned as a kid and I would provide attribution to these but have long forgotten the proper source:

"A fool and his money are soon parted"
"There's a fool born every minute"
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public"

-mike

jarhead 05-03-2007 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry D
Aircraft tires use inner tubes so a leak at the bead can't happen.

Not 100% true. Most GA tires are tube-type, but nearly all business/airliner-type aircraft use tubeless tires. Nearly all helicopters with wheeled gear use tubeless tires as well.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry D
In an auto tire the presence of moisture could promote corrosion of the steel rim. There is no tube in an auto tire normally and the water that could be in air along with the oxygen could cause rust to form on the rim. This is not a problem in aircraft.

Corrosion on aircraft wheels is a common problem, whether they are tube-type or tubeless, filled with air or nitrogen. Just a matter of where the corrosion occurs...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry D
The expansion and contraction of nitrogen and oxygen (and all gases for that matter) are the same with temperature.

I always thought (and had been told numerous times) that nitrogen was more "consistent" re: expansion than air under high temp/pressure. Guess I should've paid more attention in high school chemistry...




Nitrogen is used in aircraft tires because it doesn't support combustion. Very important in the event of a brake fire after a heavyweight landing or RTO, or a wheelwell fire with the gear retracted.

I personally don't see a reason to use nitrogen in RV tires:
- there's plenty of flammable fiberglass surrounding brakes that 99% of builders fill with flammable MIL-H-5606 fluid.
- unless you can get the nitrogen for free, air is cheaper for 99% of owners.

szicree 05-03-2007 06:19 PM

Man, this nitrogen thing sounds like magic beans to me. Once and for all, air is mostly nitrogen. Now if dryness is the concern, can't I just use a drier on my compressor line (maybe wait for low humidity days to air up) and get most of it out?

Hwood 05-03-2007 06:30 PM

Easy
 
Easy math...Let's see, Small charge for nitrogen vs Air for free.

Sounds like a "no brainer" to me....this ain't rocket science, right Paul?

Ironflight 05-03-2007 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwood
Sounds like a "no brainer" to me....this ain't rocket science, right Paul?

Well, I know that we use Nitrogen in the Shuttle's tires....but the Val gets pure, unadulterated (humid) Houston "air" (if you can call it that....) :p


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