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-   -   "Say Type Experimental..." (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=171006)

scard 05-01-2019 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 1343527)
An interesting document.

b. At locations where volume or complexity of
experimental aircraft operations warrant, a letter of
agreement may be consummated between the facility
and operator.[/i]

And this is actually a thing too. We (Falcon Flight) have long had a LOA with our local facility for some operational clarity.

RViter 05-01-2019 10:04 AM

Essence of communication ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer (Post 1343431)
I noted this earlier and somebody took offense at it for some reason. But yes, this is true...my point was that many, many, many pilots and controllers don't follow the rules on this sort of stuff *all the time*, and it's not really a problem; the end goal is communication and understanding, not to blindly follow rules. ...
Goal is communication...if it warms your heart to feel like calling yourself Experimental RV helps out, have at it.

Clarity and brevity are key components of good communications. My home field (Class D, FFZ Mesa AZ) is home to a large flight school, many RV's, two 'warbirds' groups, and CAF museum with flying B-17, C-47, B-25. A Class C only 10 miles away, with another large flight school. All inside the Class B 'veil'. Often the radio is a continuous stream of controller/aircraft traffic.

(Note - New USAF tanker, KC-46 (aka 767), started life labelled "EXPERIMENTAL" too. Would that make him "EXPERIMENTAL HEAVY"?))

Saville 05-01-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer (Post 1343431)
I noted this earlier and somebody took offense at it for some reason. But yes, this is true...my point was that many, many, many pilots and controllers don't follow the rules on this sort of stuff *all the time*, and it's not really a problem; the end goal is communication and understanding, not to blindly follow rules. If everybody on God's Green Earth (at least her ein the U.S.) knows what an RV is, it's not really adding any information to the channel to call it an "Experimental". If nobody knows what a Swizzle 500 is, calling it an Experimental Swizzle 500 isn't any help, either, but at least it avoids everyone on frequency asking themselves "what the heck is a Swizzle 500?"...they'll know it's experimental and probably weird.

Goal is communication...if it warms your heart to feel like calling yourself Experimental RV helps out, have at it.

However......

If there's an accident and you didn't follow the rules, you can expect to have that used against you.

Pilot135pd 05-01-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saville (Post 1343588)
However......

If there's an accident and you didn't follow the rules, you can expect to have that used against you.

Amen, plus if we all follow the same rules then it?s faster and better communication. I understand how maybe some airports will accept to do things different but then when you fly into another area that?s when it gets all garbled up because they are doing it slightly different too.

akschu 05-01-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_John (Post 1342806)
Almost always when you hear another experimental on the frequency... it's an RV.

Not in Alaska, it's always a cub clone....

RV7A Flyer 05-01-2019 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saville (Post 1343588)
However......

If there's an accident and you didn't follow the rules, you can expect to have that used against you.

Life is full of risks. I'll take my chances.

Saville 05-01-2019 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer (Post 1343677)
Life is full of risks. I'll take my chances.

That is a risk you needn't take. It's not like your getting massive benefit from not following the rules. The cost/benefit isn't there.

This rule - like a lot of others - isn't strongly enforced...but it's there in case they want to use it.

And to say "life is full of risks" as a justification for taking any particular risk is senseless and a specious argument:

There are risks you won't take....yet life is full of risks.

Pilot135pd 05-01-2019 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer (Post 1343677)
Life is full of risks. I'll take my chances.

I’d be fine with that except you don’t fly alone, there are more of us up there flying too and maybe we wouldn’t want to take that risk that you could enhance by not following some rules.

RV7A Flyer 05-01-2019 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saville (Post 1343679)
That is a risk you needn't take. It's not like your getting massive benefit from not following the rules. The cost/benefit isn't there.

But this rule - like a lot of others - isn't strongly enforced...but it's there in case they want to use it.

I'll worry about if/when someone finds me a case of someone who was cited following an accident for not using the phrase "Experimental", or an NTSB report that calls out as even a contributing factor the same lack of phrasing.

Seriously...this is a tempest in a teapot. Has anyone in an RV in the last 5-10 years ever even been handed a violation for just calling themselves "RV XXXXX"?

The whole things is silly...

ETA: If you think someone saying "experimental" makes the skies safer, then they're only safer for a few minutes after that ONE required use of the word, and only at fields with operating towers.

RV7A Flyer 05-01-2019 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot135pd (Post 1343683)
I’d be fine with that except you don’t fly alone, there are more of us up there flying too and maybe we wouldn’t want to take that risk that you could enhance by not following some rules.

I don't drive on the freeways alone, either, but I don't worry too much about people whose registration tags have expired. Call me a risk-taker, I guess...I'd rather know that you're an RV or a Breezy or a P-51 than know that you're "Experimental".

ETA: Hey, lookie what I found. The exact same debate for 15 years ago: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=11378


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