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-   -   Barrowing a Friend's RV (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=163999)

glockjacket 09-08-2018 06:12 PM

Barrowing a Friend's RV
 
Hi all,

Been stalking the site for a week or two now. Heavily considering beginning an -10.

A friend of mine has one. Was considering trying to work out a way I could use it while I'm building mine.

How do I go about borrowing his RV and both of us being covered insurance wise and everything? I have the standard AOPA non-owned plane insurance with hull insurance. I do plan on some transition training..

Thanks, GJ

Mike S 09-08-2018 06:35 PM

Welcome to VAF
 
Kyle, welcome to VAF:D

catmandu 09-08-2018 06:38 PM

Assuming your friend is open to this, you need to be on his insurance as a named pilot. Hopefully you have similar or better qualifications than your friend, policies are written to the least qualified named pilot. You should try to log 10 hours in his plane as PIC prior to asking the insurance company to be named on the policy (safety pilot time would be perfect). The 'everything' side of it would be up to him as the airplane owner. I know I take maintenance labor and alcohol as tribute from the non-family member on my policy. JMHO.

VA Maule 09-08-2018 06:45 PM

Have him add you to his policy as an additional pilot. Insurance company will most likely require your logbook/ experience information and maybe a checkout in the plain.

glockjacket 09-08-2018 06:57 PM

Awesome! Thanks all!

DHeal 09-08-2018 07:17 PM

It is my understanding that being listed as a Named Pilot or Additional Pilot does not afford the NP or AP any guaranteed level of coverage -- it only serves to protect the Insured. If the NP or AP is considered negligent, it is possible that the insurance company will protect/reimburse the Insured but may subrogate against the NP or AP. Be sure to check with your insurance agent/company to verify your desired coverage.

If you are flying someone else's plane as PIC, you would greatly benefit from non-owner coverage.

BobTurner 09-08-2018 07:30 PM

First thing you need to do: go to EAA.org, and read the rights and limitations of EAB aircraft. One is that they cannot be used for compensation or hire, so unless your friend will let you fly for free, you have a problem. Some posts have suggested illegal ways around this. Some posts have suggested mis-representing your logbook data. Do what you think is best for your friend.
There are really only two ways to legally do this:
1, You have a really good friend, who will really let you fly for free.
2. You can buy a fraction of his plane, and become a co-owner.

glockjacket 09-08-2018 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner (Post 1287093)
First thing you need to do: go to EAA.org, and read the rights and limitations of EAB aircraft. One is that they cannot be used for compensation or hire, so unless your friend will let you fly for free, you have a problem. Some posts have suggested illegal ways around this. Some posts have suggested mis-representing your logbook data. Do what you think is best for your friend.
There are really only two ways to legally do this:
1, You have a really good friend, who will really let you fly for free.
2. You can buy a fraction of his plane, and become a co-owner.

This is what I was curious about most. Sounds like this isn't going to be an option then. Thanks all.

FireMedic_2009 09-08-2018 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner (Post 1287093)
First thing you need to do: go to EAA.org, and read the rights and limitations of EAB aircraft. One is that they cannot be used for compensation or hire, so unless your friend will let you fly for free, you have a problem. Some posts have suggested illegal ways around this. Some posts have suggested mis-representing your logbook data. Do what you think is best for your friend.
There are really only two ways to legally do this:
1, You have a really good friend, who will really let you fly for free.
2. You can buy a fraction of his plane, and become a co-owner.

I've read §91.319 and nowhere does it state an experimental can't be leased or rented unless it's a LSA, §21.191(i), which the the RV-12 is the only LSA of the RV's. The only real question is how does the FAA define compensation or hire? From what I've read, the FAA only talks about carrying persons or property for compensation or hire. I see nothing about renting out your plane to another pilot as long as you have had your plane inspected within the last 100 hrs. And according to my insurance agent an insurance company will insure an experimental for rental. As far as the operating limitations, it states, "no person may operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.". The operating limitations also state, "This aircraft must not be used for glider towing, banner towing, or intentional parachute jumping.". I see nothing else in the limitations on renting or leasing.

BobTurner 09-09-2018 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireMedic_2009 (Post 1287123)
"no person may operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.". .

Sigh. It seems every month there?s another amateur lawyer.
?Operator? is faa-speak for the person having operational control of the airplane. e.g., the owner. The owner cannot be hired, paid, or otherwise compensated for any use of his airplane involving the carriage of people or cargo. It?s hard to imagine a rental with no person on board being carried somewhere.

But my opinion doesn?t count. Ask the FAA for their interpretation.


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