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-   -   Fun times at OSH arrival (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=162509)

Paul 5r4 07-28-2018 09:09 PM

Fisk Approach Controllers
 
I visited the Fisk controllers on Tuesday morning. Fisk was hard IFR and Osh went IFR for about an hour which gave me a chance to chat with these guys. Very nice and professional with nothing but the highest praise for the pilots that make this approach work. I went back Wednesday morning and it was a different bunch so I'm guessing it was a different bunch in the chaos on Sunday. Once the Fog lifted and Osh went VFR again these guys got to work. I was EXTREMELY impressed with their professionalism and proficiency! Even when a couple of airplanes didn't comply with instructions, these guys never lost their momentum.

I was sitting on the approach end of 36 during the Sunday mess. I've read this thread and IMHO it seems the only way to prevent something like Sundays mess would be to divide up the arrivals by having a second Ripon someplace. There are some very good suggestions in this thread, for one... "DH's No mass arrivals during expected peak times" which only makes perfect sense! At the very least, perhaps they could have a contingency plan in case this happens which would become a "plan B" in the notam.
There's a bunch of smart guys working the problem. I'm confidant they'll have some good solutions.

A couple of shots of Tuesday morning at Fisk.



ScottSchmidt 07-29-2018 10:05 AM

OSH 2018
 
This was a crazy year for getting in and the only blame goes to Mother Nature. We still had an awesome show and this should not deter anyone from coming. If your worried, come on Thursday or Friday and it will typically be non-event.

Sure the controllers could have done better and kept the stream of planes coming to the runway and increased their landing rate by 5-10% but it would not have made a difference I don't think. (It would be interesting to see the real landing and holding data) When the airport is only open a few hours on Saturday and Sunday due to weather and 10,000+ planes are trying to make it in.....this is the result.

Here are some observations I made that surprised me.

- I landed on Saturday around 6pm and was shocked to see how many planes were already in the North 40 and how few RV's there were. The GA planes know this place fills fast and we should expect Friday and Saturday to start getting busier every year. I would not be surprised if GA was filled by Friday in the next 10 years. Camping at Scholler is getting busier every year too. We continue to move out a row or two even though our spots are roped off 12-13 days before the show starts. I am surprised at how many people love Oshkosh on the RV (motorhome type) forums and have nothing to do with aviation other than they like a fun party.

-I am not going to bash any controllers because everyone did their best. When I landed they were asking for 1 mile spacing which is almost impossible in itself. I was listening on the radio on Sunday because we were watching two more friends land and they said 2 miles (what.......). I am sure that was there way of saying, "make it at least make it 1/2 mile guys".
Ripon to Fisk is 10nm. 1 mile spacing is 10 planes between the two points, 2 mile spacing is 5 planes. I had someone send a screen shot of my approach on Saturday and counted around 24 planes between Ripon and Fisk, Sunday was worse. Typically is works great.

-Yes, there was lots of piloting that was less desirable out there. Lots of skill gaps, disorientation of where to go with planes everywhere and fatigue. I have flown Ripon/Fisk 20-30 times and I understand how crazy it could be if it was your first time with 50 of your closest friends around you. For your first or second time make sure you don't fly in on Sunday. I have never flown in on Sunday and never plan on it.


We had another awesome year at Oshkosh and nobody wanted to go home.

I will say this..there are some very creative people out there and I can't wait to see someone next year with their "2018 Arrival Procedure" t-shirt that says, "turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left...Rock your wings and welcome to Oshkosh"
The arrival just made those words "turn right" sound like you won the lottery!

airguy 07-29-2018 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottSchmidt (Post 1276759)
I will say this..there are some very creative people out there and I can't wait to see someone next year with their "2018 Arrival Procedure" t-shirt that says, "turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left, turn left...Rock your wings and welcome to Oshkosh"
The arrival just made those words "turn right" sound like you won the lottery!

I'm waiting for the "I survived Ripon 2018" T-shirt. I'll buy that one happily.

JoeLofton 07-29-2018 10:38 AM

?The Fisk approach is like NASCAR, all left turns.?

ScottSchmidt 07-29-2018 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airguy (Post 1276768)
I'm waiting for the "I survived Ripon 2018" T-shirt. I'll buy that one happily.

I like that one! Yup, I would buy that too.

aerovin 07-29-2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottSchmidt (Post 1276759)
When the airport is only open a few hours on Saturday and Sunday due to weather and 10,000+ planes are trying to make it in.....this is the result.

Well, just for the record on Sunday the field went VFR at about 11:30 am and the weather only got better during the afternoon. There was about 8.5 hours of good arrival weather (until the field closed at 8:00 pm) but for a number of reasons things never caught up. I have opinions but they won't add much value to this discussion.

Walt 07-29-2018 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerovin (Post 1276843)
Well, just for the record on Sunday the field went VFR at about 11:30 am and the weather only got better during the afternoon. There was about 8.5 hours of good arrival weather (until the field closed at 8:00 pm) but for a number of reasons things never caught up. I have opinions but they won't add much value to this discussion.

FYI: A good friend of mine arrived at Ripon at 7:30 but they had closed the field to new arrivals already. I don't think it got dark till around 9pm. We all camped together at our alternate.

roadrunner20 07-29-2018 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 1276846)
FYI: A good friend of mine arrived at Ripon at 7:30 but they had closed the field to new arrivals already. I don't think it got dark till around 9pm. We all camped together at our alternate.

They were not closed for arrivals at 7:30. Yes, the ground contollers said that at 7:28, but some of us were still in the line & continued on to Fisk... I was cleared to land & did so at 7:45.
Another RV landed 5 minutes before me & another at 8:01. They were parked at HBC on each side of me.

sibriggs 07-29-2018 06:52 PM

my last Oshkosh!
 
Well that was my last Oshkosh, been coming since 1978, no more!

Between the uncontrolled circus of arrival traffic, the $5 an ear corn, the race car screeching around the FORD Pavilion (which has nothing to do with aviation, just EAA trying to make more money).

At least for me the fun and adventure has been overshadowed. :-(

catmandu 07-29-2018 07:54 PM

You want a t-shirt? You got a t-shirt!

https://www.zazzle.com/oshkosh_arriv...34687065564381

You can't actually buy it, as I screwed up the image license, but it was fun to make.


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