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-   -   Fun times at OSH arrival (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=162509)

sbalmos 07-25-2018 03:04 PM

The ATC forum was predictable. Multiple approaches would just move problems elsewhere, and the ubiquitous "staffing shortages" excuses. They tend to believe the mass arrivals are /more/ efficient because they land 3 abreast the 2 36s.

The big shocker is a ton of time was gummed up from an "unplanned/unannounced" mass arrival of 70(!!!) T-6 Texans. How the **** can you have a mass arrival that OSH controllers know nothing about? Something's amiss there, or someone needs their butt chewed royally for that if that really is true that the Texan mass arrival was completely unknown.

sahrens 07-25-2018 03:45 PM

A couple of thoughts/ observations. On Sunday the pattern was surprisingly quiet due to the mass arrival of the Mooneys, bonanzas and T-6s. I was expecting a mass arrival of single aircraft hitting their dots on 36, it didn?t materialize. I assumed at the time the wx was bad at Ripon.
I?m sure it was nice to have Music playing while they announced your call sign but with the mess at Ripon EAA should have stepped in and stopped the mass arrival show. Land in your spot and move off the runway like everyone else. Perhaps a minimum wx standard should be established. If it?s 3000 and 5 your mass arrival is good to go, otherwise it?s canceled...get in line.

cgroves 07-25-2018 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sahrens (Post 1275998)
I?m sure it was nice to have Music playing while they announced your call sign but with the mess at Ripon EAA should have stepped in and stopped the mass arrival show.

I wasn?t aware of this one, I thought the mass arrivals would be setup to maximize runway utilization, not a single file parade.

DougJ 07-25-2018 06:47 PM

So the mass Mooney arrival sahrens mentioned... We flew out together from CA and as he said arrived on Saturday. Some issues there but nothing like Sunday.

We happened to be out there during the Mooney mass arrival, and I gotta say it was ridiculous. Elements A through Z or whatever, looked like each element was a three ship. A female announcer/pilot from the group on the PA introduced each one ?element whatever, lead by Billy Bob from Podunk, call sign crusher - blah blah for each one. This went on for ages as the song ?Ride of the Valkyrie? played over and over. Are you s*&tting me?

I was ambivalent the about mass arrival issues until this trip, but the Mooney BS put it over the top. You want a mass arrival? OK, here?s your slot time and weather mins, miss it and that?s just too bad.

joe_rainbolt 07-25-2018 07:11 PM

Re: cutting in line
 
I'm not at Oshkosh this year and I've only flown in myself once. Fortunately on my flight which occurred on Monday morning last year, I had good weather. Although I did not personally observe any bad airmanship, I would describe the experience as rather chaotic. From the sound of it, I guess I was just lucky.

Having just read this entire thread, I would like to better understand what people mean when that say that they observed people cutting in line.
Is it that some aircraft joined the line between Ripon and Fisk without having first flown over Ripon?
Were these bad actors not actually over the railroad tracks?

I can certainly understand why someone who was directly over the railroad tracks and had their altitude and airspeed nailed, would be infuriated at seeing someone else passing them on the right (or anywhere else) or entering the line ahead of them.

Paul K 07-25-2018 07:14 PM

Monday arrival
 
Our Monday mid morning arrival sounds like a lot of your arrivals. We were in one hold or another for over 2hours, thankfully fuel was not an issue.

A couple of suggestions / observations;

We were in hold for over 3/4 hour when the B1 arrived. Why can't they arrive during the airshow? It would be exciting and easy to plan in and not disruptive to the rest of us. This delay snowballed into total loss of control by ATC.

The mass arrivals are fine but they should have a different entrance and be restricted to just one runway. If conditions don't allow, then get in line with everyone else!

Don't restrict or disrespect spam cans because this is the EAA. I discovered experimental by flying into OSH with my Cardinal before I knew anything about RVs or home building! I was introduced to the most exciting and satisfying building, ownership, and flying community imaginable! Don't remove this opportunity from future builders.

Holding special events (beer tasting Sunday night) and others, creates a lot of "get there itis" I love these events and understand their existence but .......

Just some thoughts.

Carlos151 07-25-2018 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_rainbolt (Post 1276031)
Is it that some aircraft joined the line between Ripon and Fisk without having first flown over Ripon?
Were these bad actors not actually over the railroad tracks?

I can certainly understand why someone who was directly over the railroad tracks and had their altitude and airspeed nailed, would be infuriated at seeing someone else passing them on the right (or anywhere else) or entering the line ahead of them.

This is EXACTLY what we?re saying. When people don?t even bother to read or let alone follow the NOTAM, there should be repercussions.

cgroves 07-25-2018 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_rainbolt (Post 1276031)
I'm not at Oshkosh this year and I've only flown in myself once. Fortunately on my flight which occurred on Monday morning last year, I had good weather. Although I did not personally observe any bad airmanship, I would describe the experience as rather chaotic. From the sound of it, I guess I was just lucky.

Having just read this entire thread, I would like to better understand what people mean when that say that they observed people cutting in line.
Is it that some aircraft joined the line between Ripon and Fisk without having first flown over Ripon?
Were these bad actors not actually over the railroad tracks?

I can certainly understand why someone who was directly over the railroad tracks and had their altitude and airspeed nailed, would be infuriated at seeing someone else passing them on the right (or anywhere else) or entering the line ahead of them.

I saw lots of short cuts over Rush Lake, joining well inside Ripon, or my favourite: turning right at Fisk and flying against traffic just South of the track

DanH 07-25-2018 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toobuilder (Post 1275963)
So we hear a lot about the arrival being saturated in this thread - Was the actual runway pattern also saturated as well?

In other words, was tower consistently landing airplanes at minimum spacing?

Not Sunday afternoon on 36L and 36R. Not even close.

Carlos151 07-25-2018 07:32 PM

Is this the EAA or the CAA
 
I?m a little confused here. Is this the Experimental Aircraft Association or the Certificated Aircraft Association?

No disrespect intentended here but all of these spam can drivers want what we have. So why exactly do Cessna, Mooney, Bonanza, etc mass gaggle fly ins get priority? If ANYONE should get priority, it should be an Experimental aircraft on the arrival.

READ THE NOTAM, join the line at RIPON like the rest of us, fly the course rules as directed in the NOTAM and come join the fun. You want a Cessna, Bonanza, etc reunion, please go somewhere else.


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