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-   -   A very disturbing discovery in my RV (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=159714)

rmarshall234 04-20-2018 07:35 AM

I'm glad this had a good outcome.

My comments:

1: A Pre-buy is not the same thing as a Condition Inspection. A pre-buy is not nearly as extensive and the main goal is to help the owner determine if they are making a good financial decision.

2: A Condition Inspection is to determine if the aircraft is "in a condition for safe flight".

The two overlap in areas but had this been missed during a Condition Inspection, you would have every reason to be pissed.

3: It is good engineering and build practices that prevented this from becoming a fatality. In particular, clearances and proper bolt orientation.

I had a similar thing happen with my RV-3 that had gone through a pre-buy. When we did the first CI it was then discovered that all the cotter pins that hold the aileron pushrods in place were never bent over and secured.

rvbuilder2002 04-20-2018 08:14 AM

More proof that the cure can be worse than the problem.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmarshall234 (Post 1254328)

I had a similar thing happen with my RV-3 that had gone through a pre-buy. When we did the first CI it was then discovered that all the cotter pins that hold the aileron pushrods in place were never bent over and secured.

All RV models (including the RV-3) don't call for castellated nuts / cotter pins in the control system. If the called for self locking nuts had been used and properly torqued (I'm assuming in this case the castellated nuts were....) then it would have been a non issue.

Point is, someones attempt to make it "safer", had the opposite effect.

DanH 04-20-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saville (Post 1254313)
Can you tell whether or not it's aluminum by looking? If so, how so?

New sleeve in your hand? It's very light compared to the correct copper sleeve.

If crimped on a cable, close examination almost always shows some copper peeking through the zinc or tin plating, where the swage tool jaws contacted the sleeve.

In addition to correct material, it is also necessary to gauge (go, no-go) the crimps, and ensure the correct sleeve size was used. There are huge numbers of sleeves in service, as mechanics have been installing them since just after WWII. No one pays much attention to them, but for a condition inspection, a mechanic should examine and gauge all the swage sleeves the first time an airplane comes under his supervision. No need to gauge on subsequent inspections (the crimps won't change), just look for slippage an/or corrosion.

The gauges are available from National Telephone (Nicopress brand) Loos and Co (Locoloc brand), or GBG/Continental.

For a lot more, download the December 2013 issue of Kitplanes.

We now return you to your regular programming....

keen9a 04-20-2018 10:19 AM

After finding the nut missing, did you look for it in the wing?

rmarshall234 04-20-2018 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 (Post 1254336)
All RV models (including the RV-3) don't call for castellated nuts / cotter pins in the control system. If the called for self locking nuts had been used and properly torqued (I'm assuming in this case the castellated nuts were....) then it would have been a non issue.

Point is, someones attempt to make it "safer", had the opposite effect.

Are you sure about which you speak? This was one of the very early S/Ns and the build began in 1977. Van himself was the DAR, so I suspect he was happy with the choice of hardware.

The error in question was made when the previous owner removed the wings to C/W the spar reinforcement SB prior to my purchase.

rvbuilder2002 04-20-2018 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmarshall234 (Post 1254375)
Are you sure about which you speak?

Yea, I am pretty sure ;)

For full disclosure, it has been quite a few years since I had a reason to look at the early vintage RV-3 plans but from the RV-4 on, I do know for sure that self locking nuts are spec'ed in the plans for all models.

In conversations I have had with Van he has never mentioned ever being a DAR (and I don't think there was such a thing in 1977)...... regardless, use of castellated nuts and cotter pins would not be a reason someone would not issue an airworthiness certificate. It is acceptable.
My point was that it is not required, and because of the change it introduced an additional instance of a mistake being made.

BruceW 04-20-2018 02:32 PM

Sibersky, does someone want you dead?

Between suspiciously lost control linkage nuts and bullet holes, I would say that someone is after you. There must be a conspiracy here somewhere. :rolleyes:
Clearly you have not been wearing your aluminum foil hat.

airguy 04-20-2018 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceW (Post 1254404)
Sibersky, does someone want you dead?

Between suspiciously lost control linkage nuts and bullet holes, I would say that someone is after you. There must be a conspiracy here somewhere. :rolleyes:
Clearly you have not been wearing your aluminum foil hat.

Russian Collusion!! Where's Vlad?!?

Dave12 04-21-2018 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airguy (Post 1254477)
Russian Collusion!! Where's Vlad?!?

Don?t go there!

vic syracuse 04-21-2018 05:51 AM

Prebuy details
 
I thought I would weigh in on this thread to help with some of the speculation. I have already spoken with the OP. Since I am the person who did the prebuy inspection, I thought I would add some clarification.

This particular one was performed over a year ago. Yes, over a year ago. A list of discrepancies was sent to the OP. Whether or not they were corrected was never communicated to me. Those discrepancies included missing jam nuts, loose jam nuts, wrong length bolts on vertical stabilizer, aileron trim working backwards, no drain holes in FAB box, improper phase I sign off, leaking brake pedal, loose elevator push tube (yes, I could spin it with my hand), no safety wire on gascolator screws, amongst other items.

All of these are fixable. But I know for certain that the nut was on that bolt, as I always check the whole control system as well as the aileron bracket attachpoint inside the wing, which requires removing the underwing inspection panel where this bell crank is located. The bell rank is checked for proper installation as well. This is a standard procedure on all prebuys and airworthiness inspections.

As for pricing, which a few of you have taken issue with, this inspection also required airline travel. This was a 20 hour day, which is typical when airline travel is involved.

The bottom line is that I as well as some of the other recognized prebuy specialists on this forum are really conscientious and do a very thorough job. We have the best interests of the buyer and the seller, as it is important that safety-of-flight items do get addressed whether or not the sale goes through. As mentioned in another post, a prebuy is not a Condition Inspection--- no repairs or maintenance such as greasing wheel bearings is performed. But it is inspected to such a detail that when completed we know if we have a SAFE airplane, along with what needs to be corrected if it is not safe.

I have traveled to 3 different prebuys this week alone, and am including some of the findings on an RV-7A, and an RV-8A done this week to help you understand some of the things I find, as well as perhaps to get some of you to take a look at your own airplanes. :)

BTW, on an RV-12 I just completed a prebuy on was very interesting. It was an SLSA, for which SB?s are not optional. That was a long unpleasant discussion with the A&P who wanted to argue the point. The same person left 16 rivets out of the stabilator SB because he thought there were too many, and substituted pop rivets for driven rivets! Not cool at all. Plus, making the entry in the logbook that the SB was complied with borders on a fraudulent entry. Those who buy without detailed prebuys can incorrectly assume the SB was properly executed.

Here are some things discovered this week alone:

-aircraft has covers on top of the wingtip strobes making it not night legal
-the dipstick is installed too tight and has damaged the o-ring at the top
-the spark plugs are very corroded, oil soaked and do not pass a resistance test
-the air filter is quite dirty
-there is RTV sealant around the induction servo, a big no-no
-the exhaust pipes are quite corroded, and the exhaust studs are severely corroded
-intake gaskets are cracked and leaking
-exhaust hangars are not installed properly and are rubbing the engine mount
-oil hoses are stamped as tested to 100 lbs. cold oil can see 115 psi at start up
-the magneto wires are not properly attached. the shielding has not been connected at the magneto or the key switch
-the vacuum pump regulator filter is severely crumbling from age
-the forward baggage compartment is an oily mess
-the fuel tank vents are not flared and screen protected as per the plans
-hoses in engine compartment are original (17 years old)
-very poor riveting on aft wing spar where aileron tube exits. needs to be watched closely for cracking
-rod end bearings on ailerons are severly corroded and frozen in place
-unlabeled switches in cockpit
-wiring under the panel is horrible
-flap motor safety bulletin is not competed correctly
-pitot static routing in fuselage is unacceptable. It runs down from the static port (can collect water) and one side isn't even connected and never was connected. This will give false static readings due to the low pressure of the aft tail cone area
-rear throttle is very stiff and unlabeled (imagine a rider in the back seat thinking it is a vent control and pulling it aft right about the time you rotate on takeoff!)
-the impulse coupling on the mag is not working at all
-there is no proper phase I signoff in the log book
-there is no proper condition inspection signoff for this year
-logbooks are horrible (no entries except for Condition Inspections)
-No SB compliance noted or completed
-wheel pants brackets are loose and the wrong bolt is installed. should be a drilled head bolt and safety wired.
-magneto timing off by 2.5 degrees
-battery tests weak and should be replaced
-rust noted in cylinders from inactivity


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