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-   -   XP-IO-360 vertical draft install references? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=15778)

Geoff 03-19-2007 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiGreyling
Hi Guys,

I am looking for people and reference websites that have successfuly installed a XP-IO-360 vertical draft FI in a RV7 or RV9.

I am currently busy with mine and are constantly running into small items I wish I could see how others have resolved it.

Thank you in advance.
Kind Regards.
Rudi

I'm building an RV8, but I am installing the vertical draft injected engine. You can see pictures of the ongoing installation in the FF section of my website: http://rv8.gwevans.net.

-Geoff

Captain Avgas 03-19-2007 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff
I'm building an RV8, but I am installing the vertical draft injected engine. You can see pictures of the ongoing installation in the FF section of my website: http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge.

-Geoff

Thanks for the info Geoff...very helpful. I'd like to ask you a question.

I have just recieved my FWF kit for my RV7A. It was the O-360 CS kit which is the one recommended by Vans for vertical induction fuel injection.

In that kit there is the filtered air box subassembly (FAB). I am assuming this is the same FAB you get with the carburetted engine....and the same one you also received.

In the FAB assembly there was a stamped metal part number VA-131-Q which is described as a mixture arm recess.

The Vans instructions with the FAB have this to say about this part:

"On engines with a vertical induction fuel injection system the mixture arm will aim downwards for the correct throw direction. The mix arm will interfere with the left side of the FAB assembly which can be removed using the VA-131-Q recess."

Can you tell me why you chose to use a spacer instead of using the VA-131-Q recess provided by Vans.

Regards Bob

Geoff 03-19-2007 11:50 PM

Cowl alignment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
Thanks for the info Geoff...very helpful. I'd like to ask you a question.

I have just recieved my FWF kit for my RV7A. It was the O-360 CS kit which is the one recommended by Vans for vertical induction fuel injection.

In that kit there is the filtered air box subassembly (FAB). I am assuming this is the same FAB you get with the carburetted engine....and the same one you also received.

In the FAB assembly there was a stamped metal part number VA-131-Q which is described as a mixture arm recess.

The Vans instructions with the FAB have this to say about this part:

"On engines with a vertical induction fuel injection system the mixture arm will aim downwards for the correct throw direction. The mix arm will interfere with the left side of the FAB assembly which can be removed using the VA-131-Q recess."

Can you tell me why you chose to use a spacer instead of using the VA-131-Q recess provided by Vans.

Regards Bob

Because without the spacer, the airbox won't align with the intake scoop on the cowl. That's because the Bendix injector servo is shorter than the carburetor. Here's what it looks like without the spacer:



With the spacer, it lines up perfectly. The spacer isn't necessary if you want to form the fiberglass extension of the intake scoop with a joggle in it. I just figured it was easier to make a spacer than to install the VA-131-Q and form the intake scoop with a joggle in it.

-Geoff

Captain Avgas 03-20-2007 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff
I just figured it was easier to make a spacer than to install the VA-131-Q and form the intake scoop with a joggle in it. -Geoff

Presumably that decision was made before you discovered that adding the spacer caused the FAB to conflict with the cowl on the mix side (causing you to fabricate a new mounting and offset the FAB).

In retrospect would you go the same way again...or use the VA-131-Q recess and joggle the air intake.

You said your father machined the spacer. If you'd had to have it made at commercial rates would that have influenced your decision....it looks like a pricey little one-off maching project to me.

Cheers Bob

JonJay 03-20-2007 06:50 AM

Pics of modified arm
 

Geoff 03-20-2007 09:03 AM

Good points
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
Presumably that decision was made before you discovered that adding the spacer caused the FAB to conflict with the cowl on the mix side (causing you to fabricate a new mounting and offset the FAB).

In retrospect would you go the same way again...or use the VA-131-Q recess and joggle the air intake.

You said your father machined the spacer. If you'd had to have it made at commercial rates would that have influenced your decision....it looks like a pricey little one-off maching project to me.

Cheers Bob

The FAB would have conflicted with the cowl anyway, even without the spacer. The sides of the air scoop go up pretty high -- they're about level with the bottom of the mixture arm when it's in the vertical position. So even if I had used the VA-131-Q, I still would have needed to remake the mounting plate.

In retrospect I probably would have spent the extra money for a horizontal induction engine. There are lots of things in the FF kit that don't work out quite right in the vertical induction, fuel injected setup. Take the engine control cable mounting bracket, for example. On the RV-8, the thottle and mixture cables exit the bracket and aim directly at the engine mount. That's probably not true on a -7 or maybe not even on a -8A, but it's definitely less than desirable on the -8.

The other thing you could do is return the injector servo and replace it with the version that has throw reversed on the mixture arm and the arm pointed up. But in this setup, the mounting bracket for the mixture cable would have to be bent/modified, and the fuel inlet would have to be on the front of the servo instad of the left side of it.

He definitely made a nice spacer for me, but it doesn't have to be that complicated. Mahlon told me that "any material that is light and impervious to fuel would work."

There are a few other threads on here that talk about these issues. Check http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=12012 and http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=14392.

After reading those a while back, I came to the conclusion that many of the issues I experienced were related to the combination of vertical induction and a -8. The -7 has a different cowl, and perhaps that makes it work out a little better.

-Geoff

Captain Avgas 03-21-2007 05:08 PM

I received an email plus some pix from JonJay and he has given me permission to post them here so I am doing so for the assistance of others who may reference this thread in the future. JonJay has the modified reverse arm. The pix will be expanded if you click on them. Regards Bob

This is his email:

"The engine came from Aerosport Power with the reverse rotation. The standard arm was too long and stuck out too far so it would hit on the cowling scoop at the scoop to cowling interface. I simply cut the center section out of the standard offset arm to shorten it, same arm that is on the throttle, and tig welded it back together. I left enough offset in the arm so it would clear the hardware on the servo body. Precision has a ready made arm that might work, but they wanted $100 for it. I had this tig welded in a local shop for $10. I believe they reheat treated it as well, but no matter, there is very little force on this arm and a lot of steel there.
I think there are a lot of ways to skin this cat. This was easy and worked well for me. I still need to bend the throttle/mixture bracket down a bit to lessen the angle of the cable, but that is easily done. It is at its extreme position now and it is not bad.

You are welcome to post these as I have an airplane to finish and that is taking a priority today. I expect to fly in the next month or two.
Hope this helps."




idleup 03-26-2007 06:33 AM

I am getting the Superior IO-360 with Vertical Draft but with the Airflow Performance Fuel System... does any of this apply with that FI? Also, does anyone know of any other issues I should address at the time or ordering/building the engine rather than have to exchange or modify later?

RudiGreyling 04-04-2007 02:52 AM

WOW a lot of response...
 
Hi Guys,

Wow I started this thread and haven?t been around in a while, it has grown significantly.

Here is where I am at, with a couple of pictures below?
1)I got the arm that points the other way
2)I used the vans VA-182-PC bracket instead of the standard one that comes with the standard carb FW FWD setup.

What I noticed so far:
- The metered hose supplied by SuperiorAir going from the Throttle Body(TB) to the FI spider will work, but runs close to the exhaust, I decided I will put some additional fire sleeving on it for the section close to the Exhaust, because I don?t know how good the protection of STD brown hose is.
- The supplied hose from the Fuel Pump to the TB inlet will not work, it just runs too close to the control cables for my liking, and might cause chaffing. I decided to have a hose made up, a little longer. I will have to figure out how to support it for the last run between the engine mount and the TB inlet.

I have not tried my airbox or cowl on yet, so I don?t know what the alignment would be. I did fit the heat insulator between the Sump and the TB, you can see it is a brownish colour, between 3 supplied gaskets.

This is my first engine install so if you see something odd, let me know!

Will keep you guys posted?If you figure out something I haven?t yet please post below.

Kind Regards
Rudi



Captain Avgas 04-04-2007 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiGreyling
Hi Guys,
Wow I started this thread and haven?t been around in a while, it has grown significantly.
Here is where I am at, with a couple of pictures below?
1)I got the arm that points the other way
2)I used the vans VA-182-PC bracket instead of the standard one that comes with the standard carb FW FWD setup.

Rudi, I see that JonJay had the same set-up as you and if I understand him correctly he had to make a couple of mods.
1. He had to modify the VA-182 bracket to get the mix cable in the correct orientation.
2. He had to modify the servo mix lever arm so that it would not hit the cowl.

For those 2 reasons I'm now not sure that having the servo mix arm facing upwards is the right way to go or not. I'm still confused.

It would be interesting if you were to temporarily fit your bottom cowl and see if there is a conflict with the mix lever arm.

It would also be interesting to see whether your cowl inlet opening is in alignment with the FAB. Some people say you need a spacer between the servo and the FAB to get good alignment...others say you don't. Once again I'm also confused on this point.


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