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-   -   thoughts on vans pricing release (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=155040)

David Paule 11-08-2017 02:19 PM

On the RV-3B, the canopy frames, wing spars (they're the kind with the machined caps) and engine mount (for dynafocal engines) are not included with enough detail to build one. The original built-up spars are not included in the plans. The rest of the plane is pretty well defined in the old-style plans. But even so, you folks with the double-digit models will be shocked if you start an RV-3B.

So it's not all that easy to build one off the plans. And there is competition for the RV-3 market out there with at least one more kit company.

As a current RV-3B builder, currently skinning the fuselage, these changes won't immediately affect me; I have all the RV-3B kits available and have been buying just parts lately. Since there's no FWF RV-3B kit, that's the sort of thing I'm been getting.

But I have no idea how this will affect the long-term market for these planes. Can't imagine that anything good will happen, since one of the positive things has been the on-going factory sales and support.

That said, I hope that Van's continues to support the kits already out there. It would be serious if they withdrew builder support (and fortunately there's no indication of that right now).

I do wish that they'd given the community a year's lead time, though. Buying a kit is a serious and expensive commitment, and people reasonably ought to have been given more time to save or prepare for this.

Dave

DanH 11-08-2017 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkervaski (Post 1217309)
They haven't dropped support, it will just cost more and perhaps take longer. At least they told everybody, they could have just as easily not said a thing (the better PR move) and at some point your order would have been met with a price increase or back order.

What Bill said. I doubt they are throwing away the tooling.

sblack 11-08-2017 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 1217426)
What Bill said. I doubt they are throwing away the tooling.

Neither would the 3rd party suppliers.

zilik 11-08-2017 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draker (Post 1217264)
Ugh... Deep into the wing kit of my all-bells-and-whistles RV-7A, I sometimes think to myself after I finish this thing, my NEXT one would have to be a super simple, no-frills, manual-everything, light, steam-gauge RV-3. Maybe not though, if they're winding down support for these :(

The difference between building a -7 vs a 3 is like the difference in to going to Chili's for dinner or catching a rabbit and eating it raw. There is no comparison.

Van's is not killing support, they be only increasing the cost for those that want to continue. Some day in the future Van's will not support them at all; it's called business. All good things must come to and end.

I myself have a 3B in slow gestation and I mean slow. I am minus the finish kit. I'm thinking of ordering the finish kit at 2017 prices and when it arrives (who knows when?) I'll at least know that I have all the parts to finish the airframe. If I don't finish then the next guy down the line at least has all the kits to finish the airframe.

That's my take on Van's position. The fact that they still support the 3, 4 and 6 airframes is beyond belief.

Captain Avgas 11-08-2017 06:51 PM

The worst scenario is not that Vans makes a few tough decisions on supply of parts for very old models. The worst scenario is that they DO NOT make the necessary tough decisions and become insolvent, thus leaving EVERYONE in a horrible position.

Most RV aficionados seem to believe that Vans is an invincible economic goliath of the kit-building industry, but as Paul Dye has pointed out margins are thin in this game .....and potential legal liability is massive. Vans needs to make the tough calls to avoid becoming too financially brittle. As RV builders and owners we are all dependent on Vans in some measure. Thus their success is our success.

There are people out there in RV land who actually live in la la land. They believe that Vans should be run like some sort of philanthropic charity.

Kyle Boatright 11-08-2017 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Avgas (Post 1217491)
The worst scenario is not that Vans makes a few tough decisions on supply of parts for very old models. The worst scenario is that they DO NOT make the necessary tough decisions and become insolvent, thus leaving EVERYONE in a horrible position.

Most RV aficionados seem to believe that Vans is an invincible economic goliath of the kit-building industry, but as Paul Dye has pointed out margins are thin in this game .....and potential legal liability is massive. Vans needs to make the tough calls to avoid becoming too financially brittle. As RV builders and owners we are all dependent on Vans in some measure. Thus their success is our success.

I would say that if Van's gave the customers a 1+ year window to conclude as much business as possible on the older kits, they would generate a LOT of business (and profit) over that year with legacy builders pushing towards the finish line. The proposed timing ain't good (short notice, holidays, etc) for folks on a budget.

EXTAAFLY 11-08-2017 07:59 PM

Make Room?
 
Yes. . . They're making room on the shelves for the new modern kit, single seat, fastback, with the flight characteristics or the -3 and comfort of the -8. Powered from LSA to 200HP.

What? Don't wake me, I'm enjoying a nice dream. That would be #2 if it ever happens.

RyanB 11-08-2017 09:48 PM

Bob, I agree completely, but what I think the worry for most Current 4 builders is that if you don?t have all 4 subkits, you have now been given just over a month to come up with the cash to get whatever is outstanding, and if you can?t we?ll then your 4 is going to become a very expensive toy.

rv6builder 11-08-2017 10:10 PM

I do find it a bit of a shame that the 3 is being made more difficult/expensive to build, as it doesn't really have a successor in the lineup like the 4 and the 6. However, business is business, if they aren't selling there 'aint no reason to keep them around.

It's also not the first time that kits have been discontinued, they stopped shipping -6 tails and wings years ago, so in theory the writing has been on the wall for some time. (not the same for the 3 and 4 mind you)

Alex

rvbuilder2002 11-08-2017 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv6builder (Post 1217547)
I do find it a bit of a shame that the 3 is being discontinued, as it doesn't really have a successor in the lineup like the 4 and the 6.

I am not sure why this keeps coming up...

<Snipped directly from the announcement posted on the web site>

Production runs for these kits will not
cease,


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