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-   -   Another Sad Day for GA (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=150881)

Mark33 11-18-2018 03:06 PM

Roger Wilco...new thread started.

Steve Melton 11-18-2018 06:00 PM

my feelings are this report is a cover up. the lack of discussion of the canopy is highly suspect. these two guys are dead and gone but it doesn't do the pilot community any good to have a report such as this. we need to look out for the next guy. I don't understand the motive completely but I'm sure there is one. we pay these guys to do their job. in this case, I don't believe they did.

tracy 11-18-2018 06:56 PM

I wonder it the authorities view these experimentals differently than the certified cans, and this is reflected on their investigations.

JonJay 11-18-2018 06:56 PM

Conspiracy theory? Steve, really.
The Feds have limited budget to analyze GA accidents that affect a very few people and pose very little public risk.

These unfortunate people flew into a group of birds. What else do you think can be learned here?

It is well documented what kind of energy a bird impact the size of a Pigeon has. Our airplanes are not designed to handle this. Simple as that.

Steve Melton 11-18-2018 06:58 PM

our airplanes can handle a pigeon on the tail.

rvbuilder2002 11-18-2018 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Melton (Post 1303521)
my feelings are this report is a cover up. the lack of discussion of the canopy is highly suspect. these two guys are dead and gone but it doesn't do the pilot community any good to have a report such as this. we need to look out for the next guy. I don't understand the motive completely but I'm sure there is one. we pay these guys to do their job. in this case, I don't believe they did.

Anyone that has spent a lot of time with NTSB reports (I have) will learn a few things......

1. They often contain errors (numerous ones have already been mentioned for the accident being discussed here)

2. They often lack information that we outsiders consider important.

2. They rarely ever imply any type of speculation as to the cause, prior to the final report being published.

Are any of these things reason to speculate a cover up? Not in my opinion.
Especially with the countless times I have seen the final report fill in the gaps and surprise everyone that had a personal interest.

I think this thread has already touched the edge of the line regarding Doug's policy of no speculation prior to a final report being issued. Everyone is of course free to come to there own personal conclusion, though as happens often, they may have to change that once the final report is issued.

I personally see no evidence of a cover up. The docket documents clearly mention that the roll bar (This was a sliding canopy RV-7) and a portion of the canopy frame (doesn't mention what portion) was present at the main wreckage but there was no canopy material. That would indicate to me that something rather violent occurred which caused the loss of the canopy and the wind screen during flight. Flight at cruise speed in an RV-7, with no canopy and wind screen (more speculation) would be incapacitating for any pilots.

Based on that, I think comments that there is a conspiracy or cover up are way out of line, and that this thread is probably on the verge of being closed (but that is up to Doug or a moderator to decide).

rv7charlie 11-18-2018 09:48 PM

And for the bumper sticker version...
 
"Never assume a conspiracy when incompetence will do."

PCHunt 11-19-2018 09:40 AM

It appears that there may be a Typo in the report.
Quoted from the report:

The plexiglass canopy, vertical stabilizer, and rudder were located during the examination of the accident site on that day; they were located several days later about 1 mile northwest of the main wreckage.

Shouldn't it read:

The plexiglass canopy, vertical stabilizer, and rudder were NOT located during the examination of the accident site on that day; they were located several days later about 1 mile northwest of the main wreckage.

sblack 11-19-2018 10:40 AM

This was just a preliminary factual report and a somewhat shoddy one at that. Obviously nobody seriously proof read it. Often when a GA airplane goes in they don't even send anyone. So to suggest that there is a cover up or conspiracy is pretty off the wall. To engage in a conspiracy, first you have to care!

I expected the moderators to stomp on a lot of the speculation I am reading here, but for some reason they have not. I am an Aero Eng and have worked in accident investigation for a few years. While I would find a bird taking off the vertical fin or rudder quite surprising, I would not challenge that finding unless I had all the info in front of me - the weight of the bird, speed of the airplane, where it hit, pictures of the damaged structure to know the failure mode, then run the numbers knowing the strength of the structure. I would never speculate without any information unless it was something very obvious. I don't think this is.

Certainly Dan's hypothesis is very plausible. I would hate to get a bird in the face. it wouldn't end well. They did not mention of there was evidence of bird residue in the crew's bodies. As unpleasant as it is to contemplate, it would be an important finding.

Flying is risky and I think bird strikes and mid-airs are 2 of the big risks we face that are not necessarily in our control i.e. not like running out of gas or flying into VMC or attempting to fly maneuvers or in conditions beyond our skill level. We will always have to accept some level of risk.


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