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-   -   Navworx , back in business? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=149343)

flightlogic 07-22-2017 11:39 AM

travel
 
Scott Edwards is on his way to Oshkosh. I think he wore out his iphone... in the last few months. Maybe there will be a show special for "tech support" proof phones somewhere on the grounds. He shared a preview of the .pdf explaining the upgrade to EXP version. No antenna change needed according to Scott. Photo shows a piggy back aluminum box attached to the top of the original unit.
Dallas IS actually a distributor. It is out of the norm to be published as the go to guy for a manufacturer for Dallas Avionics. Scott is trying hard to meet customer expectations in this unprediced circumstance. Time will tell, how it all turns out.

DavidBunin 07-23-2017 04:37 PM

NavWorx and Dallas Avionics are in booth 4054 at Oshkosh.

recapen 07-24-2017 07:37 AM

Any reports from Osh-17 on NavWorx/Dallas Avionics would be greatly appreciated. I expect there will be a lot going on there - a bunch of us are interested in the upcoming software update!

airguy 07-24-2017 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidBunin (Post 1190179)
NavWorx and Dallas Avionics are in booth 4054 at Oshkosh.

This booth is likely to be only slightly less busy than the Lycoming booth.

roadrunner20 07-24-2017 09:42 AM

I was at the ,NavWorx booth at 0900 this morning & talked to Dave, Bethany & Scott Edwards.
They do have a $299 solution. Orders to be taken 2nd week of August with deliveries in 2-4 weeks. Payment is not required at the time of order.
Basically you attach the small box onto the existing unit jumping the 9 pin connector. The output 9 pin from the new box has the same pin assignments so it's basically, plug & play.
I'll post a picture later as I'm on my phone posting now.

roadrunner20 07-24-2017 09:44 AM

Oh, the software update sets SIL=0.
We don't want to do that.
No software update is required with the new box.

Bill was there, but I did not talk to him.
If others have specific questions, let me know & I will try and get an answer for you.

recapen 07-24-2017 11:44 AM

New SB's posted on their website
 
Service Bulletins for the 200-0012, 200-0013, and EXP units are now up on the website. I have downloaded both. The SB's reference software that is not posted yet.

Dan,
Here's a couple of questions for them....

When will the software be available on the website?
Does the new software still transmit SIL=3 for systems configured with external GPS source (430W, etc -> getting AMOC)?
When will the Display Port 2 issue software fix be released?
When will the SL-70 control head issue software fix be released?

If they ask - you can use my name!

DennisRhodes 07-24-2017 11:51 AM

And Dan , add one more please. Will the software/ hardware be included for the 1090 receive .? Thanks

roadrunner20 07-24-2017 03:18 PM

I'll visit them again tomorrow & post their response.

David-aviator 07-24-2017 04:29 PM

I talked with Scott Edwards this afternoon regarding unfulfilled 600 EXP orders since last August.
Orders will be shipped by late August with "black box" that has transmond device internal.
That is good news if it comes to pass.

dtw_rv6 07-24-2017 04:49 PM

Yeah, and those of us that already have boxes in the field get the priveledge of donating $300 to Bill Moffet to get 2020 compliance that was already promised to us.

Oh yeah, they will only retrofit equipment if you order before December 31. They don't have any in stock and they are not making any until they fix all of the TSO units first... they feel the EXP guys have plenty of time before compliance is necessary.

Anyone want to buy an EXP for a good price? It works great and broadcasts SIL=3.


:rolleyes:

Don

DennisRhodes 07-24-2017 07:07 PM

I think I'm good with the suggested fix if Navworx can come thru with it . I'm also good with the $300 if that can happen as advertised. Mine is one of the early ones. It may could have been done without all the turbulence but the Navworx 600EXP continues to work flawless for me. I get good traffic reporting and weather for VFR flying even though it apparently doesn't have 1090 ie Dual Band. I would hope that comes with some of the hardware or software upgrades. Sounds like the mod is going to be easy, And I don't have to rip out and replace. I'll support Navworx if they continue to work to pull this one out. The fact that they are present at OSH gives me some confidence.

DavidBunin 07-25-2017 06:22 AM

Day one at Oshkosh was busy. We were three-deep with people at the booth most of the day. Thank you guys for coming to see us. We look forward to speaking with you all week.

recapen 07-25-2017 09:53 AM

How about some sort of info release
 
David,

How about some sort of press release - highlights, future time-frames for software and features. A bunch of questions have been posed - mostly relevant to the new SB and upcoming software release to remediate the AD.....

Those of us that couldn't go are anxious to hear some positive information!

Thanks,

DennisRhodes 07-25-2017 10:39 AM

Ralph, I believe there is the service bulletin I saw on the Navworx site which provides a bit more info as to dates for orders accepted and orders delivered on the EXP 600 fix . Think that's where I saw it.

recapen 07-25-2017 10:54 AM

Yup - I got the two service bulletins downloaded already...they leave so many questions un-answered...yes, we asked them after the SB's came out...

dtw_rv6 07-25-2017 11:35 AM

David

Navworx position yesterday at the booth was that the FAA made the EXP box non compliant by changing the regs. I have found no evidence to support that in the revision history. Can you explain what changed? Specific regulatory citations would be very helpful in convincing us that Navworx is really a victim of the FAA.

Don

recapen 07-25-2017 11:47 AM

If you look at the government website where they requested public comments on the proposed AD, it does show how the requirements were changed...initially, they would respond to all requests then they said this box has to be SIL=0, then they said we won't respond to SIL=0...or something like that....

BobTurner 07-25-2017 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtw_rv6 (Post 1190559)
David

Navworx position yesterday at the booth was that the FAA made the EXP box non compliant by changing the regs. I have found no evidence to support that in the revision history. Can you explain what changed? Specific regulatory citations would be very helpful in convincing us that Navworx is really a victim of the FAA.

Don

In my experience, some of the regional offices (FSDO, mido) are horribly out of touch with official policy coming out of HQ in Washington. Yet they talk as if their words are gospel. I can cite several examples if you like. For something as serious as TSO compliance it is imperative that the manufacturer makes sure HQ is involved in the loop. It's too easy for one FSDO guy to say one thing, while HQ is saying something different. You know who will win in the end. Whose fault is this? I'd say the FAA doesn't have its house in order. But the reality is that large companies hire experienced help just to guide them thru the maze.

dtw_rv6 07-25-2017 02:15 PM

Can anyone site the reg that changed? The SIL requirement did not. Just the timeline for enforceing the higher integrity levels. If that is the bone being picked, then the box was doomed for the same fate before 2020, just at a later date. If someone can tell me what reg was "changed" then I might cut Navworx some slack.

roadrunner20 07-25-2017 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1190548)
Yup - I got the two service bulletins downloaded already...they leave so many questions un-answered...yes, we asked them after the SB's came out...

Ralph, the response was to check out the SBs as they didn't have anymore info.
Much of the delay is waiting on the approvals from the FAA.

roadrunner20 07-25-2017 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisRhodes (Post 1190331)
And Dan , add one more please. Will the software/ hardware be included for the 1090 receive .? Thanks

Talked to David & Bethany, the delay is based on the approvals coming from the FAA.

This is the reason a date has been difficult to publish. On approval, the updates will be released. As explained to me, the 1090ES data stream comes in packets to be assembled. The UAT broadcasts in a distinct data stream & parsed.

Please, Don't beat me up on this high level simplistic explanation.

recapen 07-25-2017 04:27 PM

THANKS DAN!
 
We appreciate your efforts! Communication has not been a strong suit for this conflagration...thanks for your intermediation!

Yes, we're a tough crowd - happens when you find out you may have bought an expensive paperweight!

Hopefully, my AMOC will come through soon and I will gain a little independence - and the ability to run past July and 2020!

Don't get me wrong, I want them to succeed - against the likes of Garmin that abandons their acquisitions...they remind me of JPI and Vision MicroSystems!

Again, thanks Dan and all others relaying info from the booth @ Osh-17!

DavidBunin 07-25-2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1190537)
How about some sort of press release - highlights, future time-frames for software and features. A bunch of questions have been posed - mostly relevant to the new SB and upcoming software release to remediate the AD.....

Those of us that couldn't go are anxious to hear some positive information!

I don't have the authority to give an official press release. Come to think of it, I simply don't have any authority at all. I'm nothing. Just a spouse of an employee. For the most part, I am a concerned customer, just like every other participant here. I don't have a playbill, and I certainly don't have the script. The only unique thing I have over anybody else, is a seat with a slightly better view of the stage. And in some aspects, even that is debatable.

So if you're offering me a 'penny for my thoughts' I am happy to oblige, and that penny is about all they're worth. Here is what I think I know...

For existing EXP installations:
There will be a software available (6.0) soon. That software will bring the SIL down to 1. The 1 means you are still a client of the network and receiving all traffic services, but you are not 2020-compliant. Apparently the FAA is okay with this. Disclaimer: I don't know if that means they will accept it as an AMOC for the AD which says to move to a SIL of 0, or if they are simply okay with it in the interim to the compliance date.

There will be a software available (7.0) later. That software will work in combination with the add-on certified GPS to bring the SIL back up to 3 and make everything kosher for 2020. When is later? I can't tell. But I can guess that it will be after the certification is in hand for the add-on GPS and before the compliance date for the AD comes to pass.

If it was my cat, I would do nothing until either software 7.0 is available or until the AD compliance date draws near.

For new EXP installations:
The Gen 2.0 EXP unit will have the same form-factor as the certified unit, but (naturally) a lower price.

For new ADS600-B installations:
FAA approval (such that expectations can exist) is expected in August. Once certification is in hand, the production line will spool up. For the sake of simplicity, the company line here at Oshkosh is, "Certification in August, product shipping in September." Of course, there is a backlog and of course initial production is bound to have some unforeseen snag. So my crystal ball says that the company will transition from initial production into full-steam volume production in the month of October. Purely my guess, not a commitment to anybody on the part of NavWorx.

One the production line is humming, the company can flex it left, right, or center to emphasize new production or EXP upgrades or certified unit upgrades. Which brings me to...

For existing ADS600-B installations there are several paths forward:
1) There will be a global AMOC (or three?) that allow the unit to be slaved to an external certified GPS. From what I've read (mostly here) all of the major brands and models will have coverage. With an external certified GPS and the AMOC, the system can continue to broadcast a SIL of 3.

2a) There will be an upgrade program to install the newly certified GPS into an existing unit. It won't be free, but it isn't very expensive either. It is below the company's cost, so we bleed a little and they bleed a little. Reminds me of an expression: the goal of democracy is not to make anybody happy. The goal of democracy is to try to ensure an even and equal level of unhappiness across the population.

2b) For those who want to avail themselves of some of the new and novel features of the Gen 2.0 box there will be a more extensive upgrade program. The cost will be slightly higher than option 2a, but not dramatically so.

New and novel Gen 2.0 features:
Internal TransMON function
Internal WiFi
USB Maintenance Console connection (no more serial port adapters, yay!)
Simplified configuration process

All of the new certified units will have software 5.0. This software will auto-detect much of the aircraft configuration that was done manually until now. The unit will self-detect if it is connected to an external certified GPS, or if it needs to use the internal GPS. The unit will self-detect if it is connected to digital data for the squawk code and barometric altitude, or if it needs to use the internal TransMON. For the digital interfaces, it will auto-detect baud rates.

Software 5.0 will include anonymous mode when squawking 1200.

All units will come with the hardware to receive 1090MHz, but the software to process the 1090 piecemeal data is still in the future. Just too much to tackle in this software release. (I am just as bummed as you are.) The good news is that once the dust settles on this chapter in the company's history, I think the biggest remaining customer noise will be for the dual-band functionality. So that's why I still think I will have it in my airplane some day.

roadrunner20 07-25-2017 07:50 PM

Thank you David for putting it all out there.

FLightning 07-25-2017 07:56 PM

No photos dan?

roadrunner20 07-25-2017 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLightning (Post 1190652)
No photos dan?

Sorry, I'm not set up to ftp my image file to my server from here.
Send me a PM with your email or cell# & I will send it to you

recapen 07-26-2017 05:23 AM

THANKS DAVID
 
This was certainly worth more than a penny and answers a few of the outstanding question while giving us something positive to hang our hats on.

Hopefully soon, the individual and Global AMOCs will be published. For those of us getting individual AMOCs - we'll be good to go post 2020 as is...although some of the features touted in the new software release will be nice to have as soon as possible...Display Port 2 and Anonymous Mode jump right out for me...although the SL-70 fix may be needed for more of the certified guys as Garmin sold a bunch of SL-70/GX-60/SL-30/MX-20/SL-15 combo platters.

Again thanks!

DennisRhodes 07-26-2017 07:23 AM

Thanks David for the Update, and also Dan for the question asked. Although sounds like the 1090 receive for the 600EXP maybe " next round" Thats OK, I would be happy to just see the AD go away for this round. Maybe the FAA can make the approval and allow Navworx the time to produce some parts for us within the 6 mths.

FLightning 07-28-2017 03:40 AM

Thanks Dan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FLightning (Post 1190652)
No photos dan?

Here is the pic Dan sent, just copy the link and view it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5rrDJlsafDNyMmrJ2

David-aviator 07-28-2017 07:32 AM

Back to the beginning - Navworx , back in business?

I believe they are.

Spoke with Bill Mofffet regarding my order of last August. He said it would be filled, hopefully by end of August with a black certified box without STC label. The transmon has been incorporated in the box so it, with the GPS they send, should put me in business re ADS-B via UAT.

It was amicable conversation, parted with hand shake. I asked if war with FAA was over and he responded it is settled. :)

Delta Bravo 07-28-2017 09:50 AM

The unit looks good in the photo. Just curious does the GPS ant plug into the piggyback unit or remain connected to the original connector on the EXP?
Thanks

roadrunner20 07-28-2017 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Bravo (Post 1191135)
The unit looks good in the photo. Just curious does the GPS ant plug into the piggyback unit or remain connected to the original connector on the EXP?
Thanks

It all stays the same from my understanding. Your existing 9 pin harness now connects to the piggyback box, which jumps to the original 9 pin connector.

recapen 07-29-2017 10:56 AM

The one question that has not been answered to my knowledge...:

Will software version 5 work WITHOUT the hardware changes?

rleffler 07-29-2017 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1191340)
The one question that has not been answered to my knowledge...:

Will software version 5 work WITHOUT the hardware changes?

It is addressed in the service bulletin. V5 will auto detect the gps source and set the SIL value appropriately.

bullojm1 07-29-2017 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Bravo (Post 1191135)
The unit looks good in the photo. Just curious does the GPS ant plug into the piggyback unit or remain connected to the original connector on the EXP?
Thanks

The GPS antenna plugs into the piggyback unit according to the long conversation I had with Bill Moffet.

DavidBunin 07-30-2017 01:35 PM

The add-on GPS module (I was calling it "the doghouse" since that is where NavWorx found itself with the FAA) attaches to the ADS600-EXP by way of three existing screws. You take out three of the screws that are already there holding the sheet metal cover on, then locate the doghouse and reinstall the three screws. You move the GPS antenna connection from the main unit to the doghouse (blind side of the image in the flier). You unplug the aircraft harness from P1 and plug it into the doghouse connector. You plug the doghouse ribbon connector into the P1 plug on the main unit. Then you load software version 7.0.

What you don't want to do is load software 7.0 without having installed the GPS doghouse, because the software is designed for the new hardware.

Software 5.0 is not for the EXP unit. That's for the certified unit.

DavidBunin 07-30-2017 01:37 PM

Separately, I've seen Bill's last name posted many different ways here. For the record, it's Moffitt.

roadrunner20 07-30-2017 03:38 PM

Thank you David for clearing up the issue on where the gps antenna attaches.
And, I'm happy to hear the doghouse attaches using the existing screws & holes on the main housing.

roadrunner20 07-31-2017 08:39 PM

Saw this posted on the Dallas Avionics website regarding ordering & shipping of the new 600EXP gps module.

https://www.dallasavionics.com/cgi-b...tion=ads600exp

Here's the text.
Experimental Aircraft ADS-600EXP System:

In order for Experimental Aircraft with our ADS-600EXP Systems to comply with AD all Systems must update software to new revision (when released anticipate 8/15/17) and must install EXP GPS Module (we anticipate to begin to take orders 8/7/17 and begin shipping in 8/15/17).

GPS Module Price is $299.00

GPS module will install in aircraft and will not require any additional wiring changes. Module will be "Daisy Chained in Series" with existing system utilizing existing EXP system wiring and connectors.

All orders will be through Dallas Avionics, Inc. Orders will be accepted on 8/7/17.

Note: Experimental owners with ADS-600B System must comply with ADS-600B criteria.


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