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-   -   Hartzell Composite vs. Whirlwind Composite (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=148419)

Nova RV 08-28-2017 05:39 AM

Bob I am a day and 2 invoice numbers ahead of you and I have not heard anything about shipping from them yet. I'm in no hurry though either.

Bob Martin 08-28-2017 08:01 AM

info
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nova RV (Post 1199563)
Bob I am a day and 2 invoice numbers ahead of you and I have not heard anything about shipping from them yet. I'm in no hurry though either.

Thanks Chris......good info.

db1yg 08-28-2017 04:18 PM

New WW Prop
 
I thought the new WW was for 195hp or above aircraft--is that incorrect?
Got that from WW over the phone.

db

upperdeck 08-28-2017 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db1yg (Post 1199769)
I thought the new WW was for 195hp or above aircraft--is that incorrect?
Got that from WW over the phone.

db

I was told the same thing, my engine is 210 hp on Titans dyno.

I'll post up any new info on delivery. For what it's worth, I placed my order at OshKosh in 2016 but deliberately delayed delivery.

Av8rRob 08-28-2017 08:16 PM

Do you guys have any details or photos of this new prop? I can't find anything about it on their website.

Bob Martin 08-28-2017 09:15 PM

195?
 
From their PDF manual on the HRT74.
2.1 Description
Performance & Quality. This 74HRT Series propeller has
been designed to maximize the performance of your
airplane. This propeller delivers exceptional performance for
the modern day sport aircraft. The exceptional performance
is derived from advanced engineering developments,
including the use of our latest airfoils.
- The 74HRT Series is a two-blade hydraulic constant
speed propeller system designed for aircraft using the
Lycoming O/IO-320, -360, -375 & -390 engines (150 -
220 hp).

EDIT: UPdated info from Bill Koleno at WW......above info is / was a typo....and is being corrected now.

db1yg 08-29-2017 08:53 AM

HRT74 Prop
 
Thanks for that Bob. The text is very informative and unambiguous. Wonder why they told at least two of us otherwise?? Think I will give them a call.

Cheers,
db

Bob Martin 08-29-2017 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db1yg (Post 1199921)
Thanks for that Bob. The text is very informative and unambiguous. Wonder why they told at least two of us otherwise?? Think I will give them a call.

Cheers,
db

We had to read between the lines on this very issue before purchasing. We were at SNF talking to Chaz and touching the blade displays.

See Post 17 of this thread from WW...cutting section from post:
The new HRT propeller has shown performance increases across the entire flight spectrum compared to the already great performing 200RV propeller. The most significant improvements have been in take-off acceleration and initial rate-of-climb, there is also a modest top-speed increase.

Thinking the NEW HRT74 is replacing the previous bigger bladed prop that was clearly marked for higher HP. Yet the above comments from WW say the 74HRT outperforms the 200WW. And their documentation in the manual says it can be used down to 150HP. So we are thinking the 2017 design is just that, NEW.......and we are taking a chance.

FYI...when I say we, I am speaking of my hangar mate and I. Each with RV-6's and 0-360 A1A's...but his 0-360 has 9.1 pistions and Lycon flowed cylinders and clearly has more more than my stock 180. (but not dyno'd). I plan to install on both planes to compare performance. Hopefully the new blade design will or is cutting edge and be a winner.....Time will tell.

db1yg 08-29-2017 09:54 AM

HRT
 
Thanks Bob,

Looking forward to the test results!

Cheers,

db

db1yg 08-30-2017 09:32 AM

HRT Prop
 
Hey Guys,

Late yesterday I talked with Bill K. of Whirlwind. He is involved with the testing of their propellers including the HRT74. Bill tells me that the new HRT74 prop is designed for 205 hp or above. He suggested that if you have an HRT74 ordered and do not meet this minimum hp you should give Whirlwind a call.

Thought you folks needed to find this out now.

Cheers,

db

miyu1975 08-30-2017 11:06 AM

Hmmm...I wonder if an IO 360 A1A 200HP is close enough?

Bob Martin 08-30-2017 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db1yg (Post 1200256)
Hey Guys,

Late yesterday I talked with Bill C. of Whirlwind. He is involved with the testing of their propellers including the HRT74. Bill tells me that the new HRT74 prop is designed for 205 hp or above. He suggested that if you have an HRT74 ordered and do not meet this minimum hp you should give Whirlwind a call.

Thought you folks needed to find this out now.

Cheers,

db

Good info Thanks!
Lycon estimated our HP at 210 so we are ok, but will call WW just the same.
Thanks for the contact name.

upperdeck 08-31-2017 12:41 PM

Word from whirlwind is the spinner is drying overnight and should ship tomorrow. I'll post pics asap!

Bob Martin 08-31-2017 02:11 PM

Good and Bad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upperdeck (Post 1200583)
Word from whirlwind is the spinner is drying overnight and should ship tomorrow. I'll post pics asap!

Great News! Thanks for sharing.

FYI: I called Lycon yesterday and Shawn estimated our HP at 210-215, so we are over the 205 threshold.
I spoke to Bill Koleno of WW today via phone and he recommended the HRT74 for our installation. The HRT is somewhat new to them and they honestly have been exploring the higher HP installations more than the lower HP ones because they have the 200RV for that. Bill expressed interest in my flight testing on our other -6 with the 180 stock engine.
Sadly, he did not see our prop on the assembly line and said he would update me in a couple days with a schedule.
Also the info in the pdf owners manual that refered to installations as low as 150 was a typo....and is being corrected now. I edited my previous post too.

upperdeck 09-01-2017 02:35 PM

Prop and spinner have shipped! Pics on arrival!

KatanaPilot 09-02-2017 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Martin (Post 1199556)
No Whirlwind prop yet.
Last email said hopefully.....the end of this month.
They said still had others in front of us.
Ordered at SNF.
This week will be 20 weeks.
Paid deposit with order.
Have not been asked for balance.
No shipping info.
Invoice date 4-13-17
Order # 3263
WW has been responsive to my emails and just keep pushing the completion date out, email by email. Explainations of just being overwelmed by orders and repairs etc. 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, few more weeks, end of the month...
Not a problem for us as we are still happily flying the Hartzel prop. It does make us wonder about what happens, once we install the WW and sell the Hartzel, if we have a problem with the prop and have to wait and not fly.:eek:
To be clear......I am not vendor bashing, just stating the facts so others in the same position or curious can be in the loop.
Upperdeck.....thanks for posting your info...somehow it helps.

Since I was the OP for this thread, I wanted to weigh in on this post. I hope that the delays are primarily due to SNF and OSH orders and not repairs. If it's repairs, that would trouble me.

I ordered my Hartzell M hub composite prop through Van's and it was shipped as promised by Hartzell. Looking forward to installing it at Synergy next week and fitting the SJ cowling and BL plenum.

Nova RV 09-30-2017 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Martin (Post 1199608)
Thanks Chris......good info.

Bob FYI , I spoke with WW earlier in the week and was told the hold up now is a supplier that does some completion to the "studs". My prop blades are apparently completed and mine is #3 in line to ship and was estimated another 2 weeks.

upperdeck 09-30-2017 11:23 AM

I hate to contribute to the thread drift, but I did get my HRTprop from WW about three weeks ago. She's a beauty!

https://jeffsrv7ablog.files.wordpres...005.jpg?w=1320

Bob Martin 09-30-2017 06:00 PM

Update
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nova RV (Post 1207717)
Bob FYI , I spoke with WW earlier in the week and was told the hold up now is a supplier that does some completion to the "studs". My prop blades are apparently completed and mine is #3 in line to ship and was estimated another 2 weeks.

Chris,
Thanks for the update....
We got called about 2 weeks ago asking if we wanted the spinner painted.
We had told them no on the original order and said no again.
But it was a good tell....that it was going to the paint shop!!!
Real sorry to hear there is another hold up...geeezzz.
But we feel sure it will be worth the wait.
Thanks for the update....

Bob Martin 09-30-2017 06:02 PM

Porn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upperdeck (Post 1207729)
I hate to contribute to the thread drift, but I did get my HRTprop from WW about three weeks ago. She's a beauty!

https://jeffsrv7ablog.files.wordpres...005.jpg?w=1320

Upperdeck......that is prop porn!!
Congrats...
Did you get a spinner?

upperdeck 09-30-2017 06:10 PM

I did get a spinner, unpainted.

Northernliving 10-25-2017 11:23 AM

Any updates on the WW prop? Flirting with November now.

-Brian

Bob Martin 10-25-2017 12:04 PM

no update
 
Last update we received was via Chris on 9/30 estimating he was possibly 2 weeks out.
Our invoice date was 4/13/17. So we are over 6 months now...
Trying not to think about it.......:rolleyes:
Sure it will be worth the wait.

Nova RV 10-25-2017 01:54 PM

Bob, mine arrived last week and I am trying hard not to unpack and admire it until installation time.

upperdeck 10-25-2017 02:33 PM

I unpacked mine (see previous post to photo). I would at least inspect it for any shipping damage asap.

Northernliving 10-25-2017 05:31 PM

Re: some progress
 
Thanks, looking forward to seeing flight reports.

-Brian

Bob Martin 10-25-2017 08:00 PM

info
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nova RV (Post 1213901)
Bob, mine arrived last week and I am trying hard not to unpack and admire it until installation time.

Chris,
Thanks for update......we must be getting close.
Our invoice date was 4/13/17 Invoice # 3263.

Can you tell me what your invoice date and # was?...you had said before we were close.
We have not heard a word, and sure they will call for more money before shipping. ;) Would love to know if there were 2 or 20 between us.
Thanks

Nova RV 10-26-2017 05:58 AM

Bob, I am 3261 and mine arrived last Thursday, 10/19. Becca should be calling you for payment any time now.

Bob Martin 10-26-2017 07:10 AM

Thanks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nova RV (Post 1214062)
Bob, I am 3261 and mine arrived last Thursday, 10/19. Becca should be calling you for payment any time now.

Thanks Chris........good info.
We will get the checkbook ready..:)

smokyray 10-26-2017 07:16 PM

Dude!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Martin (Post 1214074)
Thanks Chris........good info.
We will get the checkbook ready..:)

Bob,
Am I reading this invoice correctly? Twelve THOUSAND bucks for a prop?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/orde...order_form.pdf

Dude...
V/R
Smokey

KatanaPilot 10-26-2017 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokyray (Post 1214261)
Bob,
Am I reading this invoice correctly? Twelve THOUSAND bucks for a prop?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/orde...order_form.pdf

Dude...
V/R
Smokey

Even more for the extended "M" hub, plus about $1500 for the polished spinner. Not cheap, but it was delivered on time and I don't expect any in-service issues with the Hartzell. Didn't have any with that prop on our DA-40 in 5 years of operation on our grass strip.

scsmith 10-26-2017 11:51 PM

Just following up
 
Since I had posted earlier on my experience with my WW 200RV prop, and I was just following up on this thread, I thought it would be good to post a little bit of an update.

With now almost 170 hrs on the overhaul, my WW 200RV is NOT losing any grease at all. That issue does indeed seem to be solved by the Viton O-rings.
With almost 470 hrs total on my prop, it still looks like new, except for the red oval decals, which seem to take a beating.

At this point I would have no qualms whatsoever about buying another WW prop.

Bob Martin 10-27-2017 08:10 AM

Props
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smokyray (Post 1214261)
Bob,
Am I reading this invoice correctly? Twelve THOUSAND bucks for a prop?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/orde...order_form.pdf

Dude...
V/R
Smokey

Smokey,
You are almost correct.
This thread is about Hartzell Composite vs WW Composite.
Bought one of the 74HRT's at SNF....9,215 plus shipping list!
SNF had a 5% discount for 8,754.
Includes custom PPG paint colors on blade and tips plus a primed spinner assembly.

The blades appear similar but are built differently and obviously are certified vs expermental.
And honestly there are the good and bad issues of dealing with a smaller company verses a larger company.
Least of all the Hartzell is approximately 5K MORE!! than the WW. YES 9+5=14

The cool part is my hangarmate is moving up from a paddle blade Hartzell to the new WW composite blade 74HRT...the newest one out this year. His 0-360A1A was OH'd with 9.1 CR pistons and Lycon worked cylinders and HP is estimated at 210....so it should turn the prop nicely. We are hoping to get meanful test data before and after the swap for comparisons and to see what each MPH or Knot increase actually cost! :eek:

airguy 10-27-2017 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scsmith (Post 1214303)
With now almost 170 hrs on the overhaul, my WW 200RV is NOT losing any grease at all. That issue does indeed seem to be solved by the Viton O-rings.
With almost 470 hrs total on my prop, it still looks like new, except for the red oval decals, which seem to take a beating.

I've got just under 200 hours since new on my 200RV prop, no problems whatsoever - except the decals as you mentioned. I think they made it about halfway through Phase I and said "Screw it, I quit."

Bob Martin 11-09-2017 09:14 AM

Got it!
 
It has arrived!!
We were called monday for CC info and they shipped it out.
Arrived Wednesday.......Va is close to Ohio!
Have not unpacked it yet, but will this weekend!
Pretty excited for sure.
Let the testing begin...
any thoughts on what to test before and after to get a good comparison?
Manual says to balance before flying....so Aces 1015 or Dynavibe?

VA Maule 11-09-2017 09:50 PM

Test
 
As a test I would be interested in is a ground pull thrust comparison
If interested I'm close enough to come over and help.

Bob Martin 11-10-2017 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA Maule (Post 1217902)
As a test I would be interested in is a ground pull thrust comparison
If interested I'm close enough to come over and help.

Ground pull test?...soulds like connecting the tail to a hitch of my F150 with a fishing scale between them to measure the thrust at a certain RPM?:eek:
Yes, you are close...stop in!

Bob Martin 11-26-2017 09:54 PM

Update teaser
 
Swaping props...
Removing Hartzel HC-C2YK-1BF F666A-4
Installing WW 74HRT
Removed the Hartzel today and weighed it today with spinner.
Weighed the WW with spinner (no paint)
18 lbs. lighter.

Will need to finish install and balance then test fly for performance changes but we are liking the 18lb weight savings.

Bob Martin 12-04-2017 09:16 PM

Balanced
 
Installed the new prop! WW 74HRT
Balanced the prop this evening.
Used a ACES 2015 balancer. (borrowed)
Started at .25
Ended at .01
Hopefully test flights wednesday, weather and schedules permitting.
This is one pretty prop. Maybe too pretty! :rolleyes:

db1yg 12-05-2017 04:50 PM

Flight Test Results
 
OK Bob, we are on pins and needles here?please report!

db


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