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-   -   RV-8 forced landing, Wilcox, AZ (March 17, 2017) (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=147746)

rleffler 03-22-2017 05:36 AM

Congrats on your safe landing and your son's Air Force retirement!

My son is also a Viper pilot.

bob

MikeyDale 03-22-2017 09:17 AM

Great story and even better ending! Great job staying calm and focused!..... I shut the engine down on my 7 a few weeks ago for the first time over a 10,000' runway airport (no one in the vicinity) and glided for 2 minutes to test my best glide speed! It took me 2 years to work up the nerve to do this but I'm glad I did. I wanted to know what it feels like. Actually it was no different than Idle and the rate of decent was very close to idle. I did not stop the prop. The engine fired right back up when I shoved the mixture in. I still had 4,000' so there was no pressure.

Abraham 03-22-2017 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Anton (Post 1159555)
Refueled in Truth or Consequences...

Sometime the truth hurts, so.....


Glad everything worked out for ya..

Captain Avgas 03-22-2017 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Anton (Post 1159741)
Won't know anything until we get the plane back and look at the engine.

Bill, it was a good effort to get the plane down in one piece. RVs don't have a good record in off-strip forced landings. The outcome may have been different if you had a nose wheel.

After the event did you take a look under the cowl to see if there were any obvious signs of a source of oil loss (i.e. oil hose unsecured). I must admit my sense of curiosity would have driven me to immediately whip off the cowl and have a look.

If there was a lot of oil loss you might have been very lucky there was no in-flight FWF fire. As you said, sometimes it's more important to be lucky than good.

Jetj01 03-23-2017 12:57 AM

Nice Job!
 
Good work Bill! I'd expect nothing less👍

Bill Anton 03-24-2017 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa (Post 1159752)
Bill,

Very well done, kudos to you for keeping your witts about you! You also make some great points about practice as well as having a plan before the fan stops spinning. I'll throw out a quick book recommendation for those that might be interested: "Engine Out Survival Tactics" by Nate Jaros. Nate is an experienced instructor pilot and friend of mine from Air Force days. If you haven't given a lot of thought to how you'd handle an engine failure in flight, his book would be a great place to start!

Mark

Nate is also a friend of my son, Erik (Burn). They flew together as flight instructors at Laughlin AFB. Erik also mentioned the book he wrote so I'll have to find a copy to read.

Bill Anton 03-24-2017 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPilot (Post 1159773)
Hello Bill,

Great job in emergency management. Glad you and yours are OK.

Just curious. Is the engine a 200 hp IO-360?

IO360 A1B6, 200 hp, dual electronic Lightspeed ignition, Whirlwind constant speed prop.

Bill Anton 03-24-2017 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyDale (Post 1159833)
Great story and even better ending! Great job staying calm and focused!..... I shut the engine down on my 7 a few weeks ago for the first time over a 10,000' runway airport (no one in the vicinity) and glided for 2 minutes to test my best glide speed! It took me 2 years to work up the nerve to do this but I'm glad I did. I wanted to know what it feels like. Actually it was no different than Idle and the rate of decent was very close to idle. I did not stop the prop. The engine fired right back up when I shoved the mixture in. I still had 4,000' so there was no pressure.

Mike,

Great exercise to get a feel for how to handle it. However, don't know if I would shut the engine down. You can get the same result with the throttle pulled to idle.

Bill

Bill Anton 03-24-2017 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer (Post 1159770)
Bill, do you need any help or have you made arrangments? I am about 1.45 away in Tucson.

Thanks for the offer. I headed for AZ Wednesday morning (12 hr. drive). We got there in time to get a lot of the prep tear down done before dark. Then went back out early Thursday to finish removing the wings and loading everything on a trailer which took about 2 hrs. We were headed back to KS by 8:00 AZ time. Made it back home same day.

Aggie78 03-24-2017 09:48 PM

Another viewpoint on this...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyDale (Post 1159833)
Great story and even better ending! Great job staying calm and focused!..... I shut the engine down on my 7 a few weeks ago for the first time over a 10,000' runway airport (no one in the vicinity) and glided for 2 minutes to test my best glide speed! It took me 2 years to work up the nerve to do this but I'm glad I did. I wanted to know what it feels like. Actually it was no different than Idle and the rate of decent was very close to idle. I did not stop the prop. The engine fired right back up when I shoved the mixture in. I still had 4,000' so there was no pressure.

I have been thinking about this post a bit today, and (because the internet and what's put out there lasts forever) I would like to post an alternative viewpoint to this kind of flight testing.

Generally, I'm against shutting down an engine for "test" reasons if not needed, especially if it's the only one installed on the aircraft. For whatever reason, if you do so and it fails to restart, you've just turned your "simulated" emergency into the real deal...and you did it to yourself, to boot.

An old flying buddy tells me when ideas like this occur to me to think "How will what I did sound, from the FAA investigation backwards."

While it might appear that the risks might be low due to proximity to the airport, runway length, etc., it's the unplanned, can't happen "stuff" that somehow occurs that can suddenly take you someplace you never thought you'd end up. If the engine doesn't restart, stress levels will go up (a lot) and the calm, logical computing device your brain was up till this point will likely go into abacus mode and probably be somewhere in airspace 5 disbelieving minutes behind your current location.

And for what? A datapoint, that, all things being equal was probably already possessed (either from this website or flight test at idle) and was close enough to being "real life" useful to negate any gain vs the risk taken.

If really wanting to fly and learn what it's like to land without a motor is what's desired, my suggestion is that the safest avenue would be to reach out to a glider club with an older, early generation glider like a SGS 2-33 or something similar.

Schedule several flights with their biggest, fattest instructor and put as much ballast weight in as the gross weight allows. Go out on a hot day, take a 3000' (or more) tow over the airport, release, and fully deploy the spoilers and leave them out till landing (or until the IP says otherwise.) Spiral down, set up your high and low key and see how well you do spotting the landing. Safe, great fun, and you help the local glider club stay solvent.

While I'm not sure the 2-33 will quite have matching glide performance as an engine-out RV, I'm betting it will be a reasonable enough simulation (the 2-33 is a pretty doggy glider) to be close. The head game you'll play trading off altitude, pattern location and landing spot will keep your Mark I/Mod 0 CPU plenty busy enough not to notice the difference is what I'll bet. Do it 2 or 3 times in a day, and you'll be done and ready for a beer.

It will boost your confidence in your being able to plan and execute a successful off-field landing if it became necessary, and at much less risk to yourself, the aircraft you've worked so hard to complete and the family that wants you to come home after playing with your pride and joy.

Off my soapbox.


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