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-   -   VP-X not supported on Dynon Skyview HDX (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=143968)

N427EF 11-27-2016 02:12 PM

Quote:

I was told at OSH this year all their Skyview screens were interchangeable - I could run a Classic in the same panel as the HDX. Now I can't.
I don't understand your gripe. From what I see, your only problem is you can't have the HDX right now but you have a fully functional system with your Skyview Classic and VP-X functioning beautifully, right?
Dynon said they will have compatibility in a future upgrade.
Quote:

The VPX is indispensable for me and others which makes the G3X a good upgrade option
By all means, I like my Garmin as much as my Dynons but at nearly twice the price and other issues mentioned by Jesse you might be better off exercising a bit of patience and let Dynon do their thing.
Quote:

The combination has worked well and I routinely review the status of all of the circuits on the Dynon display during run-up and in flight.
Our panels look very similar at least the 2 Dynon screens and all the switches and breakers. Mine has no VP-X and yours does.
https://goo.gl/photos/RV78ETi6JqE4mgAg6

dynonsupport 11-27-2016 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VNS (Post 1129914)
It's actually cost them resources to remove the VPX capability.

Patrick,
I can promise you the only reason VP-X is not in the HDX is the work it would take to put in HDX. HDX uses a completely different user interface that we need to re-write for VP-X. We sure didn't do work just to leave it out.

Snowflake 11-27-2016 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynonsupport (Post 1129891)
Rob, this is exactly how the VPX works in every case. You are supposed to wire up panel switches for things you turn on and off. The display on an EFIS is mainly of currents and faults for each channel, and an emergency backup to a broken switch.

I thought the point was to get all the switches turned into "soft" switches on the Dynon... Now i'm not seeing the value of having everything integrated. Having current readings on a per-circuit basis is kind of neat, and maybe handy for the initial testing phase, but after that it's probably information overload for most people.

If you don't have a Dynon, how would the VPX indicate faults? Does it have an a single alarm light, or do you wire status lights alongside each switch? Maybe the solution is as simple as putting a temporary warning light in while Dynon implements an interface.

Flying Canuck 11-27-2016 02:51 PM

The VP-X needs an EFIS to display faults and statuses. It replaces circuit breakers. Each switched circuit should have a signal from a physical switch (grounding a low current line). My understanding is that you can reset circuits and operate virtual switches for each circuit through the EFIS. There are a few other settings that can be touched, but all configuration is done through the Ethernet cable based configuration PC software. It doesn't seem to an overly complicated interface on the EFIS.

RV7A Flyer 11-27-2016 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N427EF (Post 1129775)
You don't need a bunch of circuit breakers to clutter up your panel.
Many of us are using a combination of circuit breakers or switched circuit breakers that serve blade fuse sub panels.

FWIW, I have *no* CBs on my panel...I have all fuses, using 3 busses (main, essential and always-hot), all behind the instrument panel. There are no circuits which, if tripped, I want or need to reset in flight (given redundant functionalities, back-up batteries, essential bus capability, etc...yes, I did a full fault tree analysis, as well).

RViter 11-27-2016 11:01 PM

VP-X is a paradigm shift -
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer (Post 1129995)
FWIW, I have *no* CBs on my panel...I have all fuses, using 3 busses (main, essential and always-hot), all behind the instrument panel. There are no circuits which, if tripped, I want or need to reset in flight (given redundant functionalities, back-up batteries, essential bus capability, etc...yes, I did a full fault tree analysis, as well).

What's a paradigm shift? It changes the game, it's not simply a substitution of the CB or Fuse panel. The best analogy to describe Vertical Power ECB is to think back to the typewriter, and the personal computer era. The PC was not a simple replacement of a typewriter, press a key and it appears on paper. Make a mistake and put some 'white-out' on the paper to correct it. The PC added new dimensions to the whole game. We have backspace, cut & paste, drop & drag, spell-checker, and numerous writing and editing features. Electronic storage of the documents, email transmissions, collaboration of editing, and WYSIWYG (WhizzyWig) ... fonts, and a plethora of typesetting features.

To call VP-X a substitution for a fuse block, or CB panel is to ignore the enabling technology that ECB adds. The EFIS displays the VP-X status, and informs the pilot of faults and operating conditions which a fuse panel cannot replicate. The earlier models (VP-50, -100, and -200) included a dedicated CU (Control Unit) and a bank of assignable switches. No integration with the EFIS was required. The VP-X models require the builder to construct the switches and assign them to circuit 'pins' to activate the ECB function. There is an option to enhance the switches by using illuminated switches and the ON/OFF status is then visible on the switch panel. With EFIS/VP-X integration the flap position can be displayed on a widget in the ENGINE page of the SkyView. [Think of that as WYSIWYG, added status information beyond ON/OFF.]

I'll be one of the first to say that understanding the ECB world was initially NOT intuitive and I also troubled over the oversimplification that much of the literature presents. A superficial look at ECB will miss the concept that explains paradigm shift.

Yes, it's experimental - all of the glass panels, and integration is experimental and it's about flying. Yes, some can and do 'buy the package' and turn it on but there is a huge experiment progressing in E-AB aviation. Many vendors are taking significant business risks and striving to converge on the future. Aviation is not just airfoils and stick & rudder.

Brantel 11-28-2016 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N427EF (Post 1129923)
By all means, I like my Garmin as much as my Dynons but at nearly twice the price

May I suggest that you obtain a current apples to apples quote. You may find that this statement is a bit outdated.

dweyant 11-28-2016 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantel (Post 1130024)
May I suggest that you obtain a current apples to apples quote. You may find that this statement is a bit outdated.

I priced out Garmin and Dynon when I did my panel (about two years ago now). The price difference was almost nill (I think the all in Garmin setup was about $200 - $300 more).

There are lots of reasons to pick one over the other, but price is no longer a valid one.

-Dan

DanH 11-28-2016 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RViter (Post 1130010)
What's a paradigm shift?

Apparently it has something to do with hyperbole.

RV7A Flyer 11-28-2016 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RViter (Post 1130010)
What's a paradigm shift? It changes the game, it's not simply a substitution of the CB or Fuse panel. The best analogy to describe Vertical Power ECB is to think back to the typewriter, and the personal computer era. The PC was not a simple replacement of a typewriter, press a key and it appears on paper. Make a mistake and put some 'white-out' on the paper to correct it. The PC added new dimensions to the whole game. We have backspace, cut & paste, drop & drag, spell-checker, and numerous writing and editing features. Electronic storage of the documents, email transmissions, collaboration of editing, and WYSIWYG (WhizzyWig) ... fonts, and a plethora of typesetting features.

To call VP-X a substitution for a fuse block, or CB panel is to ignore the enabling technology that ECB adds. The EFIS displays the VP-X status, and informs the pilot of faults and operating conditions which a fuse panel cannot replicate. The earlier models (VP-50, -100, and -200) included a dedicated CU (Control Unit) and a bank of assignable switches. No integration with the EFIS was required. The VP-X models require the builder to construct the switches and assign them to circuit 'pins' to activate the ECB function. There is an option to enhance the switches by using illuminated switches and the ON/OFF status is then visible on the switch panel. With EFIS/VP-X integration the flap position can be displayed on a widget in the ENGINE page of the SkyView. [Think of that as WYSIWYG, added status information beyond ON/OFF.]

I'll be one of the first to say that understanding the ECB world was initially NOT intuitive and I also troubled over the oversimplification that much of the literature presents. A superficial look at ECB will miss the concept that explains paradigm shift.

Yes, it's experimental - all of the glass panels, and integration is experimental and it's about flying. Yes, some can and do 'buy the package' and turn it on but there is a huge experiment progressing in E-AB aviation. Many vendors are taking significant business risks and striving to converge on the future. Aviation is not just airfoils and stick & rudder.

Thanks for the lesson. I wouldn't have known what a "paradigm shift" was. </snark off>

I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't use a system like VP...that's entirely up to them. All I was responding to was the idea that one has to have circuit breakers on the panel.

I'm certainly not a Luddite, and have an all-glass panel myself...but it's pretty easy to start making systems more and more complex and start to bump up against the possibility of what are called "normal failures".

FWIW, I wonder how such a system analyzes out when looking at SPFs...does it merely move around the SPFs, or does it create additional ones? Or does it eliminate some?

ETA: BTW, illuminated switches? Got 'em...on when the circuit is on, off when not. Flap position on the EFIS? Got it (well, will whenever I get around to hooking up the sensor...point is, I don't need VP-X do get this). How are switches and pins different than switches and fuses? Don't they both requires a switch?


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