DIY rebuilt versus Lyc. clone
 

I'm nearing the point where I'll be needing the big heavy thing for the front and am considering two alternatives: Buy a runout Lycoming 360 and rebuild it myself, or build a Superior at their build center in Texas. The Superior would run about $21000 I think, but the costs for the other route are a mystery. I know there are lots of other options, but I really don't want somebody else to build my motor. If anybody has gone this route please let me know what sort of total cost I can expect.

A little over two years ago, I rebuilt an IO-360 200hp for my BD-4 from a salvage core which I purchased for $9K. I used new cylinder ***'ys, yellow tagged everthing else on the core (case and crank were good). Bought new mags, fuel pump and overhauled the FI system at Airflow (non-certified, but highest quality). I assembled the engine under the supervision of a very experienced experimental engine rebuilder, a close friend who took the old cylinders in trade for the help.

When I finished I had about $20+K in the deal. I could have saved ~$2K by going with overhauled cylinders and mags but higher potential long term costs for later replacement/overhaul.

This again was for an angle valve IO-360, but I suspect the costs are very close for a parallel valve 180hp. If I were doing it again, I would go for the new engine...just for the major reduction in hassles, decisions, and time alone.

Deene

DIY parallel valve IO-360
 

Hi Steve,
With the exception of my engine being the parallel valve IO-360, Deene could have also signed my name at the bottom of his reply. We rebuilt our engine almost two years ago from a timed out 180 HP -B1E off of a Piper Arrow getting a new 200 HP engine. I think I bought the core for about $8,000 and shipped the parts off to be inspected in Oklahoma (Aircraft Specialty Services and DivCo). I used new Lyc cylinders and all accessories, had the Bendix injector system overhauled by Don at AFP, and stuck with the two mags that came with the engine (both were < 150 hrs since new). I did change out the 180 HP sump for the 200 HP of an -A1A and got new induction tubes to match from Lycon as well. I also had an experienced experimental engine rebuilder (John has 4 IO360's & 2 IO540's under his belt now) help us tear down and rebuild to make sure everything went smoothly.
After the dust settled we probably had around $20-21,000 in it as well. I'm living in Texas but we rebuilt the engine in Colorado (my home town). It was torn down and the parts were packaged for shipment in one day during a Christmas vacation, all the parts were ordered, and then we reassembled and painted it in a day and a half in June. It did take a lot of home work and preparation, but I feel like I know my engine much better than if I would have went the new engine route. I'll do it that way again on the next one.

Good luck,

I just last night hung my engine, an O-360 A1A that I rebuilt.

I learned a lot, probably saved a few bucks, but do have the intimate knowledge of what's inside.

Rough costs?

Core (assuming all internals are capable of being overhauled: ?????
Case and internals machining, magnafluxing, new bearings and rod bolts: $ 2800
Cylinders (New Superior): $ 3700
New Magnetos, wires, plugs: $ 1150
Overhauled Carb: $ 650
Fuel Pump: $ 275
Starter: $ 350
Misc Stuff: $ 1000

A new crank can be had for $2950, and I've seen Yellow Tagged cases as low as $1800.

The machining costs are a high estimate. Standard bearings (rather than oversize) will save you about $400, and you may not need everything rebushed, etc.

I'm sure I've left out a few things, but my Misc. category should pick up most of it. The real question is the cost of the core, and the integrity of the case and crank. Any core you buy should be identified well enough to prevent the $3000 hickey for a new crank, or the price adjusted appropriately! Same goes for the case.

It's not really that hard to do, most of the work is in packing up and shipping off parts for overhauling, and then cleaning and repainting stuff (brackets, induction tubes, pushrod tubes, etc.). I used brand name guys for the machining rather than local people, so there may be a few bucks to be saved there. New cylinders were a $200 premium over rebuilts, so that was a no brainer.

I'd like to think that I did a first class job. I know that I used new parts where a standard overhauler would not have. Probably very close to a factory reman. So when comparing what you're getting, keep that in mind.

The biggest unknown is the core.

Now, just hanging there I can say with much pride that I BUILT THAT!

Sure hope to **** it actually runs! :o

Dave

I went with an 0-320 from a piper apache. First run 2150 hours cost $4,500

Rebuild costs for machine work and higher compression pistions, will bring the cost to about $10,00, plus my time, if that. We have an excellent local machine shop, who is willing to work with experimental builders. In essence I traded "need it now" for lower cost. When I dropped off the bottom end I told then to feel free to work it in with their other job flow.


Remember, horsepower will give you climb, but not much speed. A good solid rebuild can be done cheaply and will run forever.

I got a "mid time" but no log O-320 core for $3500 without carb. Got an overhauled carb for $400 I believe it was. So far I have dissassembled the engine and had everything checked/magnafluxed/yellow tagged/etc, and have spent ~$2900 on that. The engine shop said they had no problem believing that it was a mid time first run engine. Oh course by everything being good I saved a bunch. So I am around $6800 now needing to buy all the gaskets, new oil pump housing and gears (wrong gears, housing bad), new lifter tappets (slight spalling and they were some part number that is not grindable), pistons, bearings, rings and so on. Then assemble it, which is something I look forward to. These engines are so simple it makes lawn mowers look complicated. It should come in below $10,000 even with the lightspeed ignition that will be on one side.

It can be done as a much more cost effective route, but you take a risk buying a core not knowing if or what is good inside. I had found cores with guarantees on those parts but they also wanted a lot more for them. I got lucky, I could have very well had a junk case or crank which can add thousands immediately. It also has to do with how much brand new you want and so on. If you are going to put on brand new cylinders there is almost $6k right there.

Scott
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