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-   -   Stamper RV-10 accident Preliminary Report (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=143587)

TFeeney 11-11-2016 07:28 AM

While this event is horrible reminder to us all to keep flying the airplane, this problem is not unique to the -10. Cirrus has had numerous accidents after the door popped open in flight.

Even in my early training in a Cessna 152 the door popped open during take off (50 ft off ground). At the time, I'll admit that I did the exact same thing as Stamper. I was lucky and it scared me enough to change my reactions in the future.

We can engineer the airplane into a tank that eliminates all risk mechanically, or we can understand the risks and what behaviors we would implement under emergency situations. Even with the best latch, and extensive checklist procedures - we all need to be prepared for the what if.

RV6_flyer 11-11-2016 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sblack (Post 1125862)
Does anyone know if there are any controllability issues with the 10 with a door open? I would not expect there to be, but aerodynamics are often unpredictable.

Years ago, one of my friends not long out of Phase I, had the door of his RV-10 open (and depart the airplane) just after liftoff. He flew the airplane around the traffic pattern and landed. He was one of the first RV-10s to fly in the state of California.

sblack 11-11-2016 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer (Post 1125892)
Years ago, one of my friends not long out of Phase I, had the door of his RV-10 open (and depart the airplane) just after liftoff. He flew the airplane around the traffic pattern and landed. He was one of the first RV-10s to fly in the state of California.

and other than the noise (and the activation of the self butt kicking machine)no issues flying the airplane?

rvbuilder2002 11-11-2016 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sblack (Post 1125904)
and other than the noise (and the activation of the self butt kicking machine)no issues flying the airplane?

I am aware of an RV-10 that lost the passenger door right after take-off, where for reasons unknown, the pilot chose to continue to his home base airport (200 miles away) rather than land back at the point of departure..... :o


So I would guess that a missing door does not cause any controlability problems.

Bill Boyd 11-11-2016 09:42 AM

Would it be impolitic
 
to ask how many doors have departed or tried to depart RV-10 airframes? Starting to sound like a sobering percentage of the fleet has been involved at one time or another. Rest assured I am absorbing all appropriate lessons from this experience for a few years down the road.

Gary 40274 11-11-2016 10:25 AM

Fearmongering
 
While a few doors have departed the aircraft I cannot think of any instances where a properly latched door has opened in flight.

Also considering the number of 10s flying it is a very low percentage.

If a pilot did not latch the door and ignored the warning lights and a door departs it should never cause a crash. We have met the enemy and they are us

Gary Specketer

sblack 11-11-2016 10:31 AM

My jodel has the same kind of door. I look at the latches just before advancing the throttle on each flight - I was taught to double check the stuff that will kill you and on that airplane that really is the only thing - the fuel valve has only 1 position so you won't make it to the runway if it is off and there is no primer to lock. But if I screw up one day because someone is talking to me or there is lots of ground traffic etc it will pop open and depart the plane almost certainly - the air is accelerating over the cockpit generating lots of lift. That is a risk I understand and I take it. Everyone has their own threshold of acceptable risk. I plan to do the same on the RV4 - develop a habit/procedure and stick to it. Not 100% foolproof but what is? Others might decide having a safety light is necessary and I totally get that.

I found a youtube video last night of some LSA type airplane in the UK landing after the canopy popped open. It was a tip-up. The guy hit the crops just short of the runway (like 5 ft) and the airplane landed on its nose, NG collapsed, prop hit the grass and it slid along the grass for 50 ft. I suspect he had increased drag and lots of distraction and messed up the landing. The video was from a go-pro of an airplane holding short to takeoff and you could hear the guys cringing as they watched the thing drag its nose down the grass runway. No injuries. So these types of things are not that rare. It comes down to being able to fly and manage the issue at the same time, which evidently is not easy.

flion 11-11-2016 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scsmith (Post 1125791)
I wonder if it is out of the question to think about moving the hinge points of the door to be along the front edge or angled so the door won't suck open? Like a Cirrus. (I admit I'm making an assumption here; I don't know for sure that Cirrus doors don't suck open).

The door will still suck open, just not all the way. I've flown a C-172 with an open door and also a Duchess. Virtually impossible to close and latch without slowing dangerously down, so it's better to just land as quickly as possible and close the door. The test pilot for my RV-6A had the canopy come open on him on the second flight and was unable to close it; others have reported the same. I have to admit, a fully open door on my RV-10 would be more distressing but I'd rather lose the door than the plane. And some planes (think jump planes, for instance) get flown with the door removed and operate safely. That door, while important, is not critical to a safe conclusion of flying. And these incidents happen in all types of aircraft; it's not an RV-10 issue as far as I can see (a per capita breakdown would be needed for an accurate assessment here).

I'd like to add a line item to Todd's checklist: slow the aircraft to approach speed. It might make the difference between losing/not losing the door. And apart from not wanting to lose the door itself, I really don't want to risk it flying back and hitting the tail. But don't slow down so much you get yourself into other kinds of trouble.

Jesse 11-11-2016 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary 40274 (Post 1125928)
While a few doors have departed the aircraft I cannot think of any instances where a properly latched door has opened in flight.

Also considering the number of 10s flying it is a very low percentage.

If a pilot did not latch the door and ignored the warning lights and a door departs it should never cause a crash. We have met the enemy and they are us

Gary Specketer

Both of these pins were inserted. The problem is that the roll pin was not fully or at all in the slot. If your button is not popped out, your roll pin is not in the slot, and your door can come open in flight. I know this for a fact. Doors don't just depart because the rear pin isn't in the hole. The Cam didn't keep this door from coming off. The forces on the door caused the handle to rotate, withdrawing the pins and rotating the Cam. A strap is the ONLY way I know of to be sure that your door won't depart the aircraft. The products on the market will help in getting the door closed, but hey will not prevent it from departing the aircraft or even from coming open, as proven here.

rightrudder 11-11-2016 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flion (Post 1125932)

I'd like to add a line item to Todd's checklist: slow the aircraft to approach speed. It might make the difference between losing/not losing the door. And apart from not wanting to lose the door itself, I really don't want to risk it flying back and hitting the tail. But don't slow down so much you get yourself into other kinds of trouble.

Good point. If you did lose the door and it hit the empennage on the way back, it would do a lot less damage at this lower speed.

Condolences to friends and family of the pilot.


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