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-   -   Stamper RV-10 accident Preliminary Report (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=143587)

TS Flightlines 11-10-2016 06:12 PM

another thought--
 
NOT wanting to hijack the thread, or go off on a rabbit trail, but learn something from my friend Bruce's passing.
BUT---I am interested in the cause of the fire. I have some obvious concerns here, but quite possibly one glaring detail that most of us dont think about. After the impact, was the fuel system intact, or was the mechanical pump or hoses damaged by the impact? My question my sound crazy, but if the boost pump was running, and the FWF hoses or pump were in fact damaged so fuel could escape, then the boost pump was dumping fuel that could have contributed to the post impact fire. I dont know if any of that is fact, and certainly dont want to speculate.
But, is this is the case, we need to address this.

Bruce---we wil miss you my friend, and perhaps we can learn something from this, to prevent is from happening again.

Tom

JonJay 11-10-2016 06:52 PM

Very sorry for your friend and the loss in general.

dave4754 11-10-2016 06:55 PM

So Very sad
 
It is good to know these things and try to imagine ourselves in this predicament and i visualize myself ignoring the blast of air, the anguish over loosing the door and other things that would surely fill my mind.

This helps to prepare and prepare some more for those unexpected things that will happen up there.

So very sorry to loose a fellow pilot and will do some more inner visuals as a result of these events. Hopefully when the day comes it will help.

mturnerb 11-10-2016 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS Flightlines (Post 1125810)
NOT wanting to hijack the thread, or go off on a rabbit trail, but learn something from my friend Bruce's passing.
BUT---I am interested in the cause of the fire. I have some obvious concerns here, but quite possibly one glaring detail that most of us dont think about. After the impact, was the fuel system intact, or was the mechanical pump or hoses damaged by the impact? My question my sound crazy, but if the boost pump was running, and the FWF hoses or pump were in fact damaged so fuel could escape, then the boost pump was dumping fuel that could have contributed to the post impact fire. I dont know if any of that is fact, and certainly dont want to speculate.
But, is this is the case, we need to address this.

Bruce---we wil miss you my friend, and perhaps we can learn something from this, to prevent is from happening again.

Tom

I'm guessing impact forces were enough to cause damage to the fuel tanks, so the fuel source is there and so are plenty of ignition sources (exhaust for starters). No aircraft is designed to withstand the very high g loads and irregular application of forces in a high-speed impact resulting from a stall.

I've had a door pop open just after takeoff (not in an RV) and it was very hard to resist the temptation to focus on the door. I was able to climb to pattern altitude and close it, but retrospectively it would have been much smarter to land and deal with it. I was a student pilot at the time and lucky. Agree with the need for ongoing training for unexpected events in critical phases of flight.

Kyle Boatright 11-10-2016 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scsmith (Post 1125791)

Are there any reasons why it would be very difficult or impossible to relocate the door hinge points?

I had a Piper Tomahawk which had doors which resembled the RV-10 doors. Each door had two external hinges along the front edge plus a latch at the top of the cabin that captured both doors and a latch along the lower aft edge of each door. I could envision a similar system on the RV-10, but finding appropriate locations for hinges is the challenge.
,
On the RV-10, the doors are large, with the potential to impart a big twisting moment, so I think you'd want widely spaced hinges.

There is one likely hard point at the bottom front corner of the door where you could tie a hinge into a longeron, but there is no obvious point for a second hinge without structural changes. Glassing a hinge to the A-pillar *might* work, but I don't know enough about glass structures to envision that solution.

If you'd like pictures and/or measurements of the doors and structure around the doors, send me a PM with your e-mail.

pierre smith 11-11-2016 05:17 AM

Nope
 
I've had my -10 for 7 years now, without any backup latches of any kind...not even Van's. If you carefully check the doors for security and both pins inserted, the doors will not open.

Best,

sblack 11-11-2016 05:52 AM

Does anyone know if there are any controllability issues with the 10 with a door open? I would not expect there to be, but aerodynamics are often unpredictable.

Jesse 11-11-2016 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre smith (Post 1125855)
I've had my -10 for 7 years now, without any backup latches of any kind...not even Van's. If you carefully check the doors for security and both pins inserted, the doors will not open.

Best,

Both pins inserted and the handle roll pin in the slot. That last part is the critical part that so many fail to mention. I have had 2 doors come open due to this last step being missed (only one by me).

dmaib 11-11-2016 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich (Post 1125760)
As I have lost an RV-10 door due to a C130 prop blast, I'm sensitive to the issue. This is what I told the guy who bought my RV-10:

N7ZK?s doors have primary and backup locking devices, and the SkyView alarms if all four primary locking pins are not in place. The doors will last a lifetime if you don?t violate the rules:
1. Doors shut and locked before engine start.
2. Assume your passenger did not lock his/her door ? verify before engine start.
3. After engine start verify all four door pins in by observing the Green door indication on the SkyView EMS display.
4. Doors shut and locked anytime the engine is running ? no matter how tempting to do the hot passenger pickup/drop off.
5. If parked anywhere but in a hangar, doors shut and locked unless you are standing next to the door. So for all fueling, moving to park, etc. doors shut and locked. In other words, unless you are getting in or out of the plane, doors shut and locked.

Carl

Rules to live by. Don't get complacent about any of the steps.

William 11-11-2016 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse (Post 1125865)
Both pins inserted and the handle roll pin in the slot. That last part is the critical part that so many fail to mention. I have had 2 doors come open due to this last step being missed (only one by me).

Hi Jesse how was each situation dealt with?

I'm a possible future rv10 owner and It seems if the door swings open during flight that it is highly likely to depart the aircraft, and if that door were to hit the tail surfaces, well..... I know it doesn't look like that happen in Mr Stampers case but knowing if the door opens and will likely depart in flight the appeal to try and close it is a valid one. Perhaps the best form of action during a open door in flight with no runway left would be climb at VX until 2000ft and then attempt to close the door. Thoughts?


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