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-   -   What ELT (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=140260)

Tomcat RV4 07-28-2016 07:26 AM

For vfr flying I p!an to go with PLB ,as it offers everything except automation ! Tom

kamikaze 07-28-2016 07:33 AM

If you're going to install a fixed ELT, make it 406 ... there is NO point in 121.5 at this point, waste of money, it's not being monitored. Not sure you'd save any money either.

Want redundancy, get a 406 AF and a PLB.

I think I saw Canada now has a deadline on 406 installations ... Mexico keeps pushing theirs back, haven't heard of a mandate in the US yet ... but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea ...

Canadian_JOY 07-28-2016 07:55 AM

RV7A Flyer wrote:
"So what's the difference between a 406 MHz ELT and a PLB, really? Essentially, only the automation of initiating a signal, right? They're both GPS-based, satellite-detected, and initiate S&R immediately upon receipt of first signal, IIRC."

A couple of points of education here, if I may...

1) neither ELT nor PLB are GPS-based. they can both use GPS position to narrow the search area, but the primary means of location remains the production of a small search area through multiple passes of LEO satellites (soon to be MEO satellites), using Doppler, to locate the transmitter. If that transmitter is sending GPS information then that GPS position is provided to SAR via a geostationary satellite and virtually eliminates the need for multiple LEO satellites, thus giving SAR your position within minutes.

2) 121.5 ELTs are NOT satellite detected, and haven't been for several years. If your 121.5 ELT goes off, you're reliant on an over-flying aircraft hearing your transmission, then finding the transmitter is done by brute-force searching with airplanes and people. There is no way to take even a rough position hack off your 121.5 transmission - that died when the last 121.5 satellite splashed down in the ocean. Again, 121.5 ELT signals are NOT monitored by COSPAS-SARSAT, period.

3) a 121.5 ELT + a PLB does NOT = redundancy. A 406 ELT + a PLB = redundancy. Again, no big brother up in the heavens is looking for your 121.5 signal. A 121.5 ELT signal does NOT initiate SAR unless somebody just happens to hear it. Do you want to take the chance that you're unconscious, bleeding out, with your PLB hanging dormant on your harness? Think about it!

bret 07-28-2016 08:04 AM

read this review:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/...ad_integra.php

within minutes he had a call when he accidently activated it and sarsat located him within 100 feet and this was in a metal hanger and no antenna.

Canadian_JOY 07-28-2016 08:52 AM

I have a similar story. Elapsed time from activation to resolution of the alarm was 8 minutes when a mechanic managed to turn on the brand new ELT he was installing. The best part of the story was the false alarm was dealt with by a few phone calls. No airplanes were scrambled, no lives were put at risk.

BobTurner 07-28-2016 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat RV4 (Post 1098512)
For vfr flying I p!an to go with PLB ,as it offers everything except automation ! Tom

??? Here in the US EAB aircraft are not exempt from the ELT rules. You need to have one, unless you fit into one of the exemptions (e.g., no passengers, ever).

JonJay 07-28-2016 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY (Post 1098535)
I have a similar story. Elapsed time from activation to resolution of the alarm was 8 minutes when a mechanic managed to turn on the brand new ELT he was installing. The best part of the story was the false alarm was dealt with by a few phone calls. No airplanes were scrambled, no lives were put at risk.

Come on now. They don't scramble airplanes everytime an ELT goes off. I would assume they follow a similar regiment to what they have always done? If it goes off at an airport, like Bret's example, or in an urban area, they will assume a false alarm and follow that protocol.

Not lost on the point. I have learned a lot about the capabilities of the "new" ELT's and they are obviously worlds ahead of where we where before. Being able to quickly discern and qualify alarms (false alarms probably occur more often than real emergencies) is a huge plus.

I look forward to hearing more from others experiences and opinions.

I am glad this thread was started.

Canadian_JOY 07-28-2016 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonJay (Post 1098549)
Come on now. They don't scramble airplanes everytime an ELT goes off. I would assume they follow a similar regiment to what they have always done? If it goes off at an airport, like Bret's example, or in an urban area, they will assume a false alarm and follow that protocol.

Well, all too often SAR resources ARE scrambled for 121.5 ELTs. That's the challenge of the 121.5 technology - it's totally anonymous. Its the registration of the 406 beacon that allows a rapid and tightly-targetted communications search. It's these communications searches that are proving to be so effective in weeding out false alarms.

While I am not an active member of the Canadian CASARA (civil SAR organization) my hangar-mate is, as are several flying friends. I can assure you they get scrambled frequently to search for 121.5 ELTs that are in hangars, trunks of cars, etc. Not very long ago we had a Herc spend about an hour circling one of the local suburbs, thanks to a 121.5 ELT transmitting from a person's home. Scrambling airplanes to look for 121.5 ELT's is still happening, all too frequently.

JonJay 07-28-2016 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY (Post 1098558)
Well, all too often SAR resources ARE scrambled for 121.5 ELTs. That's the challenge of the 121.5 technology - it's totally anonymous. Its the registration of the 406 beacon that allows a rapid and tightly-targetted communications search. It's these communications searches that are proving to be so effective in weeding out false alarms.

While I am not an active member of the Canadian CASARA (civil SAR organization) my hangar-mate is, as are several flying friends. I can assure you they get scrambled frequently to search for 121.5 ELTs that are in hangars, trunks of cars, etc. Not very long ago we had a Herc spend about an hour circling one of the local suburbs, thanks to a 121.5 ELT transmitting from a person's home. Scrambling airplanes to look for 121.5 ELT's is still happening, all too frequently.

They just sent some young recruits from the local sheriffs office to my garage when the kids accidently activated mine during a move. Pretty sure they knew an airplane wasn't in distress in a heavily populated area given the fact that nobody called 911. Perhaps they do things differently in Canada. ;)

bret 07-28-2016 11:00 AM

It looks like the G trigger is in the forward direction, thinking about mounting in the spot designated in the plans behind the baggage wall, upside down but still forward arranged forward, and then install a Lexan window on the bottom of the fuse, in case a crash and end up upside down, and the external antenna gets damaged or coax severed, the internal GPS antenna can see the sky and yell for HELP? YES-NO? any other thoughts-ideas?


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