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Amazing!!
I fly locally a lot and never see another airplane - yesterday had 2 close encounters. One guy in a Mooney, appeared to have jumped me from 5 o'clock, I broke the other way in a 180 and he kept on going. The others was a Cherokee minding his own business.
I hate to spend more money on this airplane but it looks like ADS-B is a coming necessity. I don't like in flight surprises. |
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If a Mooney is jumping you from five o'clock, then that implies he already has a serious energy advantage. If he was set up for a close-in flight path overshoot, a break turn may temporarily neutralize his attack but he will still have a net energy advantage while you've just used more of your energy in the turn. One option might be a lag/displacement roll to your left. This will force the Mooney to overshoot while preserving your energy state and putting you in an offensive position. Depending on his experience, the Mooney driver will likely extend and disengage. Be prepared for a rolling scissors however if the Mooney driver possesses the spirit of attack. Not sure how ADS-B is of any help in this scenario. ;) |
Not a pleasant surprise . . .
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Were you . . .climbing, cruising, landing, maneuvering? |
PCAS
Have you flown with a simple PCAS device, Xaon or Monroy? They aren't 100% effective and are certainly no replacement for prudence, but they can provide a nice tap on the shoulder from time to time. I intend to keep mine in place even after adding adbs traffic. I'm sure it would have given you a few extra moments notice on at least one of your targets!
-jon |
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This... This reply right here.. is why the internet is awesome =) |
Flight following could have helped and way cheaper than ADS-B. :D
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Personally, I make it a point to never fly slowly enough to be overtaken by a Mooney.
Push it up to 8 GPH... That should do it.:) |
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I hadn't considered chaff/flares at all, which could be fatal depending on what the Mooney was armed with :eek: |
If you can meet him neutral, you may have the chance to assess his energy then decide on a one- vs two-circle fight. Your RV's wide max-G maneuvering range makes it a natural for the radius fight if he decides to engage (the Mooney bandit will be a rate fighter).
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Goose, I'm bringing him in closer, ( your doing WHAT?) I'll hit the breaks and he will fly right by!
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DR, are you on? we need a new Forum - TACTICS!
this is great stuff! although most goes right over my head, it's amazing to read what goes thru the minds of those who are truly trained in 'situational awareness'.
The real take-away, is that some of the mindset and skills that will save your bacon in a situation with 'guns', also is very applicable ( energy, vector, radii, etc.) in a dangerous VFR close encounter! thanks guys! ( even those Mooney bandits!...gotta have a target, right?) |
I had a Cessna appear in the windshield the other morning at my 1 O'clock. The Zaon had chirped, indicating 3 miles (note: Zaon units are REALLY bad at assessing distance) and then blinked off, only to blink back on at about the same time it appeared less than a quarter mile away.
I always get mad at myself when I don't pick up the traffic, but I get more angry when I think that AGAIN, I didn't bother picking up flight following for a short flight. And I LIKE talking to MSP controllers. As for Brad, well, it amazes me sometimes he ever got a first date. :D |
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have had plenty of near misses while on flight following. ...Like "less than 100 feet, evasive action required" near misses. FF is a great tool, but don't relax your scan just because you think the guy on the ground "has your six"... Because he doesn't.
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Many years ago I was trained in the F-86L in all weather intercept, mostly night IFR type flying under radar control. We had one lesson on day fighter tactics - and that probably was thrown in because our flight commander had been a fighter pilot in Korea in F-80's and the 86. He was lead in that lesson which was nothing compared to what day fighter guys experienced, a roll in from perch and as he commented on my effort, good job you rolled your socks down on that one. What really matters today, in our environment, is the same as always, see and be seen - preferably to see before being seen. It is so important!! The aids we have with flight following, ADS-B and whatever else there is are great but there is no substitute for situational awareness and a visual scan IMHO. Long live aviators - at least as long as possible. :) |
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I don't think I would disregard buying a used Xaon unit. I have seen several for sale on this forum in the past few months. I know the company is out of business but as long as the unit is operational I cannot see why it would not continue working for many many years. The electronics in the unit really don't care that the manufacturer is no longer making new ones. It will still work as long as electricity and data signals flow through it. |
Trolling anyone?
Troll the guy. If he had missiles you'd already be toast or he's just a 'gunner'. Max power and turn into him with just enough 'G' to prevent a firing solution. Trade off some altitude to maintain your energy. He'll think you haven't seen him. If he dissipates energy (slows down) to saddle up for the shot, you can then apply the rest of your available 'G' to force an overshoot. Now it's your turn!! If he keeps his energy and pitches up (high yo-yo) it may be time to 'bugout' while he is nose high. A high wing (C-180) vs low wing (Mooney) in a turning fight is not a good idea. Always watch out for dash 2!
****This all is assuming his aircraft has a performance advantage. |
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Need to Turn the Transponder on
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Please, please if you have a transponder, turn it on every time you fly, even where it is not "required". |
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Radar
You may have had a heads up had you been operating your rear facing Synthetic Aperature Radar (SAR) system. A quick internet search turned this up. Just scale it up.
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/20...dar-system-250 Bevan |
GIB?
I thought it was the backseater's job to look out for traffic from the rear.
While this is a side-by-side, it illustrates the concept. |
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One thing I've never quite grasped is how you can keep sight on the opponent as both aircraft maneuver after a neutral break. |
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Bevan |
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...and yes, if your neck isn't somewhat sore the next day, you didn't do a great job. This was at no more than about 5G; I can't imagine how painful 9 would be. Full Disclosure: I've learned from professionals, but am only a hobbyist and not a military-trained pilot. |
I was talking with approach not too long ago, had a squawk code and was being vectored to the final approach coarse (VFR conditions and no hood). Had just centered on the localizer and was about to cross the FAF. They called traffic two miles at my 2 o'clock. Um, no, it's directly in front of me my altitude. I climbed a few hundred feet to go over it - a Cessna 172. I'd been watching him for ten seconds or so before they called it...
Paraphrasing Jurassic Park......traffic finds a way. And that A2A dogfight talk, what parts I understood, was pretty funny <g>. |
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"Scroll" speaketh the truth. As only an F-4 pilot can speaketh it.
Been there, done that, and even taught it!! BTW, a classic rolling scissors in two RV's can be done inside a small indoor stadium! Canopy to Canopy is scary when you are used to jet speeds!! :eek: Quote:
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(I'm a pigeon as I'm too old, fat and slow to be a dove!) |
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Looking back, maybe I could have been a fighter pilot except that SAC drafted our entire F-86 class due to a shortage of bomber and tanker pilots. it was fate, as they say, quite a number of guys did not survive VN in fighters, no tanker pilots bit the dust that I know of although we did see a MIG one day. He high tailed it when he saw the 2 F-4's escorting us. The KC-135 had no defense except to go full throttle and depart the area. The 135 would go through Mach 1 straight and level although is was forbidden due to mach meter error. Those were days of uncertainty - seemed like that conflict would never end. One of my friends in the tanker outfit volunteered for 105's, the shortage was reversed now due to Thud losses, he was killed on his first mission up north. We set up a tanker cross country from Texas to California to get him on his way to VN after 105 training that November. Three months later we attended a funeral service in OK, his body was never recovered. War is ****, don't ever think it isn't and that one was awful with its politically imposed limitations. Over 59,000 body bags and no victory, what a mess it was. |
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To all of you: Live Long and Prosper! |
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http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=131172 |
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Our crew slept in a tent just one night after a day when 2 of 4 105's were shot down. We topped off all of them going in and then the 2 still flying again, again and again as they kept going back in to cover the downed guys until a chopper could pick them up. We ran very low on fuel and spent the night at the 105 forward base. The only concrete at the place was the runway and ramp, the rest of it was water, floating walk ways, bugs, snakes and tents. If the moderators will be patient with this digression, I'd like to mention a real hero I met a couple weeks ago at young eagles rally, his grandkids were getting a ride. He is a retired Marine Sargent. His job was to trek into the Ho Chi Min Trail through the jungle and plant seismic sensors along it. These guys carried rations, weapons, and the devices through enemy territory, slept on the ground, planted the devices along the trail and made there way out same as coming in. The operation was classified until just recently so he could talk about it. These devices were very high tech back then, picked up traffic on the trail, transmitted it to receivers somewhere and were programmed to self destruct by an explosive charge after so many days. He said it was really tricky to get in there, not have them blow up while going through the jungle and not being detected by the Vietcong. This guy was tough, even at age 70+ he was impressive. We all serve when called, some of us just serve a little more intensely than others, like the Marine Sargent. Flew again today with absolutely no traffic sighted. It was so quiet tower cleared me to land six miles out...go figure, but it sure is not reason to relax the scan. The enemy is out there. |
ok you got overtaken by a Mooney and you are admitting it?:confused: I'd sooner admit to bed wetting or the clap.
Oh wait... 7A.... never mind. |
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