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-   -   Buying on pricepoint (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=130144)

AviatorJ 09-30-2015 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clevtool (Post 1018066)
Perhaps we can re-frame purchasing decisions to think that that extra 30% we pay to get a US made product is a charitable donation to support jobs of US workers, and the 'prize' that we get for making that donation is a much upgraded product and a healthier long term economy.

That's going to be a hard sell for any consumer product. What you're seeing with the economy globalization is everyone to stay competitive is having to constantly change and adapt. Consumers have more choices than even on how to spend their money. 25 years ago you wanted some tools you went down to your local hardware store or grabbed a Sears catalog. Not the case anymore, you're inundated with choices be it local owned shops, big box retailers or the many eCommerce sites, Cleaveland tools included.

I wouldn't consider my purchase from Cleaveland Tools local, unless by local you mean benefiting a company in the United States. I also didn't consider price as my number 1 determining factor when buying said tools. For me customer service was #1. Mike and Anette taking the time to work with me and customize my order was important. Also quality was a main concern so I wanted to use tools that people who have build airplanes have used. Also their website looked better than the other suggested Vendor... That might be a silly reason but it was a reason. Now I will admit there's some things that I still pick up from discount vendors that source their tools from overseas... but that's mainly because I'm not overly concerned with the quality and just need some basic level of functionality.. ie buckets, nitrate gloves, clamps, ect.

YellowJacket RV9 09-30-2015 01:59 PM

A lot of times people fail to see both sides of the story. If I spend an extra 30% on something SOLELY because it was made in the USA, that's less $ that I have in my very own American pocket, to spend on other things, maybe even right here in my community. I have as much respect for the hard working American small business owner as the next person, but as a blue-collar worker myself, I don't feel the need to donate my hard earned money to them simply for a warm fuzzy feeling.

Where American companies can provide the value-add is in support and service, and that is why I am a customer of Cleaveland, and many other VAF advertisers. I have had nothing but good experiences, and am sure I will make many more purchases from these companies. But there are also times when I need a simple tool for one job only, and won't think twice about buying a harbor freight cheapie. And the local, American employees of my local harbor freight have a job because others think the same way.

There is room for competition, and room for American companies to distinguish themselves.

Chris

Snowflake 09-30-2015 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mturnerb (Post 1018103)
This seems to be an over-the-top harsh response. Have you walked in the shoes of a (North) American small business owner who has tried for decades to provide the best quality/service at a reasonable price?

My post wasn't intended to be harsh... Just honest. I am glad that it's opened a discussion... Lots of good points have been made.

My last three jobs were all for technology companies that used a mix of local and offshore manufacturing. One builds high-volume electronics for the consumer market. Another builds specialized, low volume digital cameras for medical and scientific research.

Through it all, I've heard arguments for and against offshore manufacturing, and i've seen first hand how a transition from North American to offshore manufacturing can work. All I can say is that I've seen the same mix of good and bad products come from both North American *and* offshore suppliers.

It's not fair, or realistic, to just make a blanket statement that you should *always* buy local. If that were true, i'd be flying a Murphy Rebel, designed and built less than 20 miles from me. I don't know what kind of car i'd be driving...

Charles in SC 09-30-2015 08:06 PM

IMHO the American people are digging their own graves. They do not want to work unless they get big bucks. The folks they are competing with overseas will work for very little because they have to do whatever they can to put money in their pockets.
I always go back to the theory that the cheap price does not mean much if the product is cheap.
I do not want to buy a tool that will work until my project is done. I want a tool that will work until my great grand son's project is done. Maybe longer.

Bubblehead 09-30-2015 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevan (Post 1018120)
The foreigners are cheating to keep prices low enough to export and still make a profit.Bevan

The U.S. "cheats" too. Tax breaks, low interest rates, incentives to move to a state or city, and we have tariffs on imports too, sometimes high tariffs. Right now the strong dollar gives us more buying power so we import a lot.

When I was young and struggling I bought the cheapest I could because that was all I could do. About age 50 I started pulling out ahead and started buying somewhat on price, somewhat on quality, somewhat on service, and probably on some other criteria too.

I also agree a lot with Yellowjackets RV9.

9GT 10-01-2015 06:22 AM

In the last several years I have made a conscious effort to read the box or label to find out where the product was manufactured and opt for the USA manufactured product even though the price may even be double. Some of our grocery items are now coming from China. I can buy a bottle of apple juice for the grand kids from China for .99 cents, or Organic from USA for $2.49. I am by no means wealthy but I opt for the USA products any day.

GalinHdz 10-01-2015 07:31 AM

Quality/Price=Value. If quality is average and price is low then overall value is higher than if quality is average and price is high. The consumer decides how much value he needs then decides how much he is willing to pay. If it wasn't this way Gulfstream, Rolex, Ferrari, Bentley, etc could never stay in business even though their prices are very high.

This is the global economy where the number of competitors is much higher. And it is only going to get more competitive as time goes on.

:cool:

Av8torTom 10-01-2015 09:06 AM

Service
 
Let's face it, some foreign tools are so inexpensive you can throw them away and buy 3 more before you've spent what the US manufactured version will cost you. When making the original purchase the difference in quality is hard to judge, the difference in service is not. I will try and purchase products from local venders whenever I can in hope of getting superior service, and I will place a value on that service. When my $10 dimple die breaks I'm out of luck; when my $30 Cleaveland Tool dimple die breaks I know they'll send me a new one at no charge. In my opinion the only way to justify higher price to the consumer is to provide that which the cut-rate outfit cannot, and that's GREAT customer service - but that comes with a price.

Bavafa 10-01-2015 09:29 AM

Speaking in general terms and not specific to Cleveland tools, the ? buying US made? argument is getting harder and harder to sell since many of those companies don?t help themselves. Judging based on the some of the CEO and executives compensation, it is getting harder for me to pay the extra 30% just to support ?buying US made?

rapid_ascent 10-01-2015 10:08 AM

This is a difficult topic to throw a blanket over and make generic observations. I have worked as a design engineer for 30+ years and I have watched production move out of the US over that time. I wish we made more items here and at times I have had to fight to keep the production here in the US. The reality is that companies do have competition and they have to do what it takes to be competitive. We in the US need to use our skills to keep that edge. Gone are the days when you can say products from China are poorly made. There are many high quality manufacturers in China and other Asian countries. I still believe if you make a good product people will buy it even if it is "sljghtly" more expensive. We all look for value in our purchases. If you plan to use an item infrequently a cheap product may be a value. If you use it all the time an expensive tool is a value. The mistake we make in the US is trying to sell our products based on cost and not based upon value.


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