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-   -   AIRCRAFT TYPE / SPECIAL EQUIPMENT (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=128349)

todehnal 08-07-2015 06:18 AM

AIRCRAFT TYPE / SPECIAL EQUIPMENT
 
I have some confusion about filling in block 3 of an FAA flight plan; (Aircraft Type / Special Equipment) I thought it was RV12/G, but I am not so sure about the equipment suffix now. I'm fully Dynon equipped with a Skyview touch, Mode S transponder, and the ADS-B box. I'm not sure that the "G" states it well. Any thoughts??

Tom

mturnerb 08-07-2015 06:24 AM

I had the same confusion and was advised to simply use /U.

I'll be interested to see what others recommend. (I have dual G3X touch/ADS-B, ES transponder)

GalinHdz 08-07-2015 07:21 AM

You file /G if you have an IFR certified GPS navigator installed in your aircraft. Neither the DYNON SkyView or Garmin G3X systems are IFR certified navigators so you use /U. Now, if you had a Garmin 430 or equivalent certified IFR GPS navigation equipment then you would file /G.

:cool:

todehnal 08-07-2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalinHdz (Post 1003899)
You file /G if you have an IFR certified GPS navigator installed in your aircraft. Neither the DYNON SkyView or Garmin G3X systems are IFR certified navigators so you use /U. Now, if you had a Garmin 430 or equivalent certified IFR GPS navigation equipment then you would file /G.

:cool:

Hey Galin, you may well be correct, but I cannot find "IFR Certified" in the FAA documentation on the use of /G.

This is an excerpt of the equipment code suffix usage: Note that it says "capabilites", not IFR certified.
___________________________________________

/G Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.
___________________________________________

The above is from the (AFS-410, 7/31/05). If you can offer some documentation to support your statement, it would be greatly appreciated.

Tom

todehnal 08-07-2015 11:05 AM

Hey Galin, Here is another example that is from Foreflight:


What equipment codes should I select? For example, is a G1000 a /P or a /S?

You can select multiple options for Radio Communication, Navigation and Approach aids, on the Aircraft page. In the Radio Communication section, choose:

S if your aircraft has a VHF comm radio AND a VOR AND an ILS receiver installed (all operational.)

G if your aircraft has a GPS receiver that is installed and operational.

If your aircraft has a G1000, you could select both S and G. Same goes for a GTN750, KSN770, GNS430, etc?; each would allow you to select S and G. However a handheld or portable GPS does not allow you to select ?G.?

az_gila 08-07-2015 11:21 AM

I use /U and just add "VFR GPS" and "406 hand held PLB" in the comments section.

RFSchaller 08-07-2015 12:06 PM

When I file I use U and on first ATC contact tell the controller I can proceed direct with a VFR GPS. They usually accept that.

GalinHdz 08-07-2015 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todehnal (Post 1003977)
Hey Galin, Here is another example that is from Foreflight:

What equipment codes should I select? For example, is a G1000 a /P or a /S?

You can select multiple options for Radio Communication, Navigation and Approach aids, on the Aircraft page. In the Radio Communication section, choose:

S if your aircraft has a VHF comm radio AND a VOR AND an ILS receiver installed (all operational.)

G if your aircraft has a GPS receiver that is installed and operational.

If your aircraft has a G1000, you could select both S and G. Same goes for a GTN750, KSN770, GNS430, etc…; each would allow you to select S and G. However a handheld or portable GPS does not allow you to select “G.”

That is correct. With the G1000, GTN750, KSN770, GNS430, etc… you can select /G, /S. Otherwise you would select /U, assuming you have a Mode C transponder.
Quote:

Originally Posted by az_gila (Post 1003981)
I use /U and just add "VFR GPS" and "406 hand held PLB" in the comments section.

This is the best way of filing if you have a non approved GPS.
Quote:

Originally Posted by RFSchaller (Post 1003990)
When I file I use U and on first ATC contact tell the controller I can proceed direct with a VFR GPS. They usually accept that.

And most of the times there is no problem at all with this.

:cool:

GalinHdz 08-07-2015 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todehnal (Post 1003970)
Hey Galin, you may well be correct, but I cannot find "IFR Certified" in the FAA documentation on the use of /G.

This is an excerpt of the equipment code suffix usage: Note that it says "capabilites", not IFR certified.
___________________________________________

/G Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.
___________________________________________

The above is from the (AFS-410, 7/31/05). If you can offer some documentation to support your statement, it would be greatly appreciated.

Tom

Good question. So to be be sure, I asked some REAL expert that I know and this is a paraphrased answer:

"You can put whatever you want for VFR, but for IFR operations, a bunch of AC's (including AC 20-138) and the AIM requires IFR certification to be considered GPS-equipped. What is the point of filing VFR /G if you can't legally fly an RNAV route?"
Ref: AIM Tables 1-1-5 and 1-1-6 on page 1-1-24.

The AIM states:
"To be approved for use in the National Airspace System, RNAV equipment must meet the appropriate system reliability, accuracy and airworthiness standards."
Ref: AIM Part 5-1-8(d)(2)(note) on page 5-1-15.

:cool:

dynonsupport 08-07-2015 04:46 PM

Quote:

/G Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.
Since non-certified equipment cannot be used for primary navigation (IFR or VFR), you do not have a GPS with "enroute or terminal capability". In VFR, technically your eyeballs are your primary nav.

Foreflight is being a bit Certified aircraft centric. Note they list that you should have a GPS installed to use /G. Well, in a certified plane you can't install a non-certified GPS, so this is really saying the same thing.

Thus, /U is appropriate.

As a note internationally, without a certified GPS you also don't have ADS-B, so your SSR code is just S.

todehnal 08-08-2015 11:39 AM

It looks like I am free to use /G as long as I am not filing an IFR flight plan. I like using it because that lets the controller know that have "direct to" navigation capabilities. The rule stated that all I need is an installed, and functioning GPS to do so. I cannot come up with any negatives..........Tom

BobTurner 08-08-2015 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todehnal (Post 1004227)
It looks like I am free to use /G as long as I am not filing an IFR flight plan. I like using it because that lets the controller know that have "direct to" navigation capabilities. The rule stated that all I need is an installed, and functioning GPS to do so. I cannot come up with any negatives..........Tom

The point is that you do not have 'direct to' nav capability. Non certified gps is not authorized as a primary nav. Why cause trouble for yourself? Do not claim anything you don't have.

todehnal 08-08-2015 02:26 PM

Yeah, you're probably right. /U it is........Tom

GalinHdz 08-08-2015 02:40 PM

And when flying under VFR rules your primary navigation system is not a piece of equipment but your eyeballs. Everything else, certified or not, is for situation awareness.

:cool:

Bill_H 08-08-2015 09:18 PM

What is this "VFR flight plan" of which you speak?

Seriously, in a thousand hours of GA flying I have never filed one. Used flight following a lot. Filed IFR about a half of that total time after I got my ticket just to be in the system (when I was based in Houston).

Anyone else never file a VFR plan?

BobTurner 08-08-2015 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_H (Post 1004343)
What is this "VFR flight plan" of which you speak?

Seriously, in a thousand hours of GA flying I have never filed one. Used flight following a lot. Filed IFR about a half of that total time after I got my ticket just to be in the system (when I was based in Houston).

Anyone else never file a VFR plan?

I'm a bit surprised your cfi didn't make you file one for your solo cross countries, just for practice.

BigJohn 08-09-2015 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_H (Post 1004343)
Seriously, in a thousand hours of GA flying I have never filed one. Used flight following a lot. Filed IFR about a half of that total time after I got my ticket just to be in the system (when I was based in Houston).

Apparently you have never flown VFR in Canadian airspace, in the Washington SFRA, or used lake reporting service. All require VFR flight plans.

dmaib 08-09-2015 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn (Post 1004393)
Apparently you have never flown VFR in Canadian airspace, in the Washington SFRA, or used lake reporting service. All require VFR flight plans.

Or penetrated the coastal ADIZ VFR. (flying to the Bahamas, for instance).

todehnal 08-09-2015 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_H (Post 1004343)
What is this "VFR flight plan" of which you speak?

Seriously, in a thousand hours of GA flying I have never filed one. Used flight following a lot. Filed IFR about a half of that total time after I got my ticket just to be in the system (when I was based in Houston).

Anyone else never file a VFR plan?

Bill, it's probably overkill, especially in a modern built airplane, but much of the area that we fly in is not covered by any radar service. In fact, many areas don't even have cell service. Thus, flight following isn't much help. It's nice to know that someone will come looking for you, should you fail to close a VFR flight plan. A flight to M93, Houston County Airport is a regular for us. It's an unattended airport, no cell service, no radar coverage, and nothing but tall trees and lots of water for miles in all directions. So, why do we go there? Just a half a block walk will get you some of the best breakfast meals, and a Sunday Brunch Buffet that is in our of this world, at least in our part of the country.

Tom

Rik 08-11-2015 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_H (Post 1004343)
What is this "VFR flight plan" of which you speak?

Seriously, in a thousand hours of GA flying I have never filed one. Used flight following a lot. Filed IFR about a half of that total time after I got my ticket just to be in the system (when I was based in Houston).

Anyone else never file a VFR plan?

Apparently incorrectly after reading this post, I file an VFR Flight plan with G via my ForeFlight. Open and close it on the IPad and never speak to anyone unless I am late.. Done that already.

It's just a flight plan and when filing it you have the option of VFR or IFR.

az_gila 08-11-2015 12:29 PM

Going obsolete...
 
Well apparently after March of 2016 we will need the codes for the harmonized ICAO Flight Plan...:)

https://iacra.faa.gov/iacra/faa7233-4.pdf

The FAA agreed to an AOPA request to delay it's mandatory use 6 months from the previously announced Oct 1 deadline. The old form (and codes) will no longer be accepted


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