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-   -   Picked up an earthX LiFePo4 battery at Oshkosh (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=127942)

jclark 12-26-2015 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgundyja (Post 1040156)
I have a io-360 200hp with thick and short cables. What is the smallest size earthx that will start the engine?

I would try the ETX680. I *think* that is the number of the one they have as a potential "replacement" for the PC680.

When we did Widget's that model number did not exist.

I am sure they will correct me if I am wrong. That is what I will be installing to turn a an O-360 (180 HP) as soon as I can get a few other projects cleared up. :-)

James

scrollF4 12-26-2015 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclark (Post 1040166)
I would try the ETX680. I *think* that is the number of the one they have as a potential "replacement" for the PC680.

When we did Widget's that model number did not exist.

I am sure they will correct me if I am wrong. That is what I will be installing to turn a an O-360 (180 HP) as soon as I can get a few other projects cleared up. :-)

James

No, wait, you must use the battery matched to your alternator output. If you have the standard 60 amp alternator, then the ETX680 is the right battery because it's designed to accept up to 60 amps of charge. I installed PlanePower's 70 amp alternator: Thus, I bought the ETX900 which accepts up to 80 amps of charge.

This is vital, because LiFePO4 batteries take the alternator's MAXIMUM charge output after engine start and alternator activation. After about 10 or 20 seconds, the charge drops down to current load. Imagine trying to force 70 amps charge into the 60 amp ETX680...not good.

While you're at it, recheck the gauge cable you have running from the alternator to the battery. It'll get that max amperage workout every single time you start the engine and charge.

I love my EarthX ETX900. Like Scott Farnsworth said, it turns the prop sp powerfully I swear I could taxi the aircraft on starter power alone. :cool:

jclark 12-26-2015 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrollF4 (Post 1040169)
No, wait, you must use the battery matched to your alternator output. If you have the standard 60 amp alternator, then the ETX680 is the right battery because it's designed to accept up to 60 amps of charge. I installed PlanePower's 70 amp alternator: Thus, I bought the ETX900 which accepts up to 80 amps of charge.

This is vital, because LiFePO4 batteries take the alternator's MAXIMUM charge output after engine start and alternator activation. After about 10 or 20 seconds, the charge drops down to current load. Imagine trying to force 70 amps charge into the 60 amp ETX680...not good.

While you're at it, recheck the gauge cable you have running from the alternator to the battery. It'll get that max amperage workout every single time you start the engine and charge.

I love my EarthX ETX900. Like Scott Farnsworth said, it turns the prop sp powerfully I swear I could taxi the aircraft on starter power alone. :cool:

SO TRUE!!! What he said!! :-)

I (probably incorrectly) assumed that you were running a 55-60A alternator.

James

burgundyja 12-26-2015 06:24 PM

Alternator
 
I have a plane power alternator 30 amp. I think that my small avionics bus is about 5 amps. So that is 25 amp of charge. I am looking at the etx18 or etx24. This is a very light airplane.

vic syracuse 12-27-2015 07:13 AM

PC 925 replacement?
 
Which would be the right one to replace the PC925 with a 60 amp B&C alternator. It looks like it would take the ETX 1200 to not lose any cranking amps or standby AH's, but it looks a little pricey. I would be really nice to lose the weight of the PC925 from the aft end of the RV10.
Vic

EarthX Lithium 12-28-2015 03:21 PM

Which EarthX battery?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vic syracuse (Post 1040313)
Which would be the right one to replace the PC925 with a 60 amp B&C alternator. It looks like it would take the ETX 1200 to not lose any cranking amps or standby AH's, but it looks a little pricey. I would be really nice to lose the weight of the PC925 from the aft end of the RV10.
Vic

Hi Vic,

Thank you for the question. In matching up a lead acid to a lithium battery, the amount of amperage the alternator puts out is very important to match up and if this was the only requirement, any of the aircraft batteries would work in your plane that has the 60 amp alternator but that is only one piece of the equation.

Next you need to match up the amount of amperage your battery has in the event your alternator fails, which is the most critical, and you are on battery power only. Based on this, the 1H 1C rate for the PC925 is 21.9ah, the ETX680 has 12.4ah, the ETX900 has 16ah and the ETX1200 has 24.8ah. Based on this, the ETX1200 is most suitable.

The last part of the equation is the cranking power. The PC925 has 330CCA, the ETX680 has 320CCA, the ETX900 has 400 CCA and the ETX1200 has 600CCA.

The weight savings is amazing on all of them. The PC925 weighs 26 pounds. If you choose the ETX680, you save 22 pounds; the ETX900 you save 21 pounds and if you choose the ETX1200, you save 18 pounds. The cost of the EarthX battery is definitely more than the PC925 which price is around $135. The difference is cost from the ETX680 is $244 more or $11/pound to reduce that amount of weight. The ETX900 is almost $15/pound to reduce that amount of weight and the ETX1200 is $33/pound to reduce that amount of weight. There is no cheaper way to reduce the weight on your plane and the weight loss does add up in fuel savings and increased horse power as well as a side benefit.

Hope that answers your question!

Fly Lightly,
Kathy

vic syracuse 12-28-2015 03:37 PM

Thanks.
 
I agree with all of your points. Let me ask it this way... given an aircraft with 2 alternators and a TCW backup battery for the EFIS, wouldn't the 900 be a viable alternative without losing anything other than the AH capacity? Cranking capacity should be better, correct?

Vic

EarthX Lithium 12-28-2015 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic syracuse (Post 1040677)
I agree with all of your points. Let me ask it this way... given an aircraft with 2 alternators and a TCW backup battery for the EFIS, wouldn't the 900 be a viable alternative without losing anything other than the AH capacity? Cranking capacity should be better, correct?

Vic

Yes, as long as you know you are getting a battery with less usable amp hours than the PC925, all the other parts of the equation line up. You are very welcome to call us at (970) 674-8884 if you have any questions as we are here to help support you in making a decision you are comfortable with!

Fly Lightly,
Kathy

burgundyja 12-28-2015 04:50 PM

smallest earthx
 
what is the smallest just for starting? I don't care if my alternator quits and I lose power. I have a 30 amp alternator. I was looking at the 18 and 24 model.

EarthX Lithium 12-28-2015 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgundyja (Post 1040691)
what is the smallest just for starting? I don't care if my alternator quits and I lose power. I have a 30 amp alternator. I was looking at the 18 and 24 model.

Tell me more about your airplane, what engine do you have?

Fly lightly,
Kathy

burgundyja 12-28-2015 05:50 PM

more
 
IO-360 200hp Catto fixed pitch prop.

EarthX Lithium 12-28-2015 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgundyja (Post 1040706)
IO-360 200hp Catto fixed pitch prop.

Based on the size of your engine, the ETX680 is the smallest battery to use with this engine and it only weighs 4 pounds. The ETX18B and ETX24C are not powerful enough for your application.

Funguy 12-28-2015 10:19 PM

EarthX Distribution in Canada
 
Does EarthX have distribution in Canada??? Any issues shipping batteries across the border? Thanks in advance.

burgundyja 12-29-2015 06:45 AM

Small earthx
 
I know that that 24 doesn't have the options of the 680. The starter I have says it should draw about 200 amps so it looks like the 24 would work. Is there a reason why you think its to small. I like the weight and the price.

kamikaze 12-29-2015 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funguy (Post 1040767)
Does EarthX have distribution in Canada??? Any issues shipping batteries across the border? Thanks in advance.

Aircraft Spruce Canada lists them. Apparently only 2 models ship as dangerous goods. The MSDS is also there, sounds like it shouldn't be an issue ...

ackselle 12-29-2015 07:56 AM

ETX680 from Aircraft Spruce Canada
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funguy (Post 1040767)
Does EarthX have distribution in Canada??? Any issues shipping batteries across the border? Thanks in advance.

I purchased an ETX680 from Aircraft Spruce Canada. It shipped via Canada Post just fine.

BTW.... the ETX680 is actually thicker than the PC680. I had to build a new battery box to accommodate the ETX680.



Cheers,
Ackselle

RV7Guy 12-29-2015 09:16 AM

battery box
 
Here's the battery box I made for the 36C, installed on the firewall of my new 7. I used 1/2" angle and some scrap .032 sheet. The box was powder coated. 6 ounces. TT to build about 4 hours including a rough sketch.

[IMG][/IMG]




kamikaze 12-29-2015 11:17 AM

Out of curiosity, what was the thinking behind it being powder coated?

EarthX Lithium 12-29-2015 11:18 AM

Canada Distribution
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Funguy (Post 1040767)
Does EarthX have distribution in Canada??? Any issues shipping batteries across the border? Thanks in advance.

Thank you for the question and we ship to Canada all the time with no issue. You can order direct right from our website at www.earthxmotorsports.com

Fly Lightly,
Kathy

RV7Guy 12-29-2015 02:38 PM

Lots of coating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikaze (Post 1040885)
Out of curiosity, what was the thinking behind it being powder coated?


I had the roll bar, canopy frame, engine mount and numerous other parts powder coated. I like the "finished" look and not just bare metal. Also not a fan of gray. I had many parts anodized as well.

Lucio I-NLCM 12-30-2015 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgundyja (Post 1040706)
IO-360 200hp Catto fixed pitch prop.

Hi Mike, could you tell about numbers from your Catto prop?

thanks

EarthX Lithium 12-30-2015 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgundyja (Post 1040794)
I know that that 24 doesn't have the options of the 680. The starter I have says it should draw about 200 amps so it looks like the 24 would work. Is there a reason why you think its to small. I like the weight and the price.

The initial inrush current from your starter will measure closer to 600 amps which is why you need the ETX680 at a minimum. For any vehicle, the charging system is one of the most used systems and under sizing any of the components, which would include the alternator, the starter or the battery, will have poor performance results, cause additional stresses to the system and cause premature failures.

I understand that the cost of the batteries can be restrictive and is not for everyone. Based on this, we recommend buying a lead acid battery that meets your needs than buy an under sized lithium battery.

Fly Lightly,
Kathy

bweiss 12-30-2015 01:56 PM

very nice design and construction. I like the hold down better than the one I built. High quality, I cannot wait to see the rest of your plane. Keep pounding, one day it will fly and you enter a new chapter.

DrillBit 12-30-2015 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7Guy (Post 1040937)
I had many parts anodized as well.

Like the purdy conical washers under the cap screws?

RV7Guy 12-30-2015 04:14 PM

Bought'm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrillBit (Post 1041203)
Like the purdy conical washers under the cap screws?

Nope, bought those.

EarthX Lithium 01-05-2016 10:36 AM

First new product to be introduced in 2016!
 
Based on many of you requesting a battery box that could be interchangeable between the ETX680/ETX900 or the PC680.......we have listened and we have it! The mounting holes are exactly the same as the one Van's sells for the PC680 so no modifications needed there, it weight just over 8 ounces and cost $59. If you want to read more about it check it out here at:

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/mu...-pc680-odyssey

Fly Lightly!
Kathy

kamikaze 01-05-2016 11:16 AM

Brilliant! *now* I can start building :)

kaweeka 01-05-2016 02:32 PM

My plane goes in for annual the end of this month. The PC680 is just about 4 years old and beginning to show signs of aging sooooooo..... I ordered the EarthX 680 and the new battery box. They say it matches up with the existing holes so I'll let you know how the exchange goes. Really nice folks at EarthX, I must say.

vic syracuse 01-09-2016 05:57 PM

Battery comparison
 
I was able to get some testing done today, and thought I would share with everyone here. I currently have an Odyssey PC925 in the RV10, and have always used that battery in both RV10's, changing it out every 3 years. The battery always tested good, but I really don't care to be stranded somewhere. It's 3 years since I installed the last one and time for a change, and I thought I would look into EarthX batteries again, seeing as they have some more choices now and a pretty good track record from what I can tell.
Kathy at EarthX was kind enough to send me both a ETX 900 and an ETX 1200 so I could compare them. I certainly don't have a lab for testing batteries, but here's what I decided to do:
Crank for 10 seconds and see what the rpm's were using an optical tach. Then run the full avionics load for 45 mins. Then crank for 10 seconds again and count RPM's and measure cranking voltage.

Here's what I got:

PC 925
  • initial voltage with everything on: 12.4 v
  • cranking rpms: 120
  • 30 minutes load: 11.8 v
  • 45 mins load 11.7
  • crank after 45 mins 80 rpm and 10.0 v

ETX 900
  • initial voltage with everything on 13.2
  • cranking rpm's 140
  • 30 mins load 12.7
  • 45 mins load 12.6
  • crank after 45 mins load 120-140 rpms 10.6 v

ETX 1200
  • initial voltage with everthing on 13.1v
  • crank 10 seconds 160 rpm
  • 30 mins load 12.8v
  • 45 mins load 12.7
  • crank after 45 mins 140 rpm 11.9v

Conclusions: either the 900 or the 1200 are adequate for the RV10 in my estimation. I was really impressed with the power out of a box that is so light!

As luck would have it my friend and fellow RV10 driver Ted Chipps needs a battery for his 10 and he chose the 900, so I will put the 1200 in mine and I will report back on this list of any findings. Hopefully we will be able to get some good long-term data from these 2 aircraft that are similarly equipped.

Kudos to Kathy and the team at Earthx!

Vic

BillL 01-09-2016 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic syracuse (Post 1044001)
I was able to get some testing done today, and thought I would share with everyone here. I currently have an Odyssey PC925 in the RV10, and have always used that battery in both RV10's, changing it out every 3 years. The battery always tested good, but I really don't care to be stranded somewhere. It's 3 years since I installed the last one and time for a change, and I thought I would look into EarthX batteries again, seeing as they have some more choices now and a pretty good track record from what I can tell.
Kathy at EarthX was kind enough to send me both a ETX 900 and an ETX 1200 so I could compare them. I certainly don't have a lab for testing batteries, but here's what I decided to do:
Crank for 10 seconds and see what the rpm's were using an optical tach. Then run the full avionics load for 45 mins. Then crank for 10 seconds again and count RPM's and measure cranking voltage.

Here's what I got:

PC 925
  • initial voltage with everything on: 12.4 v
  • cranking rpms: 120
  • 30 minutes load: 11.8 v
  • 45 mins load 11.7
  • crank after 45 mins 80 rpm and 10.0 v

ETX 900
  • initial voltage with everything on 13.2
  • cranking rpm's 140
  • 30 mins load 12.7
  • 45 mins load 12.6
  • crank after 45 mins load 120-140 rpms 10.6 v

ETX 1200
  • initial voltage with everthing on 13.1v
  • crank 10 seconds 160 rpm
  • 30 mins load 12.8v
  • 45 mins load 12.7
  • crank after 45 mins 140 rpm 11.9v

Conclusions: either the 900 or the 1200 are adequate for the RV10 in my estimation. I was really impressed with the power out of a box that is so light!

As luck would have it my friend and fellow RV10 driver Ted Chipps needs a battery for his 10 and he chose the 900, so I will put the 1200 in mine and I will report back on this list of any findings. Hopefully we will be able to get some good long-term data from these 2 aircraft that are similarly equipped.

Kudos to Kathy and the team at Earthx!

Vic

While I like to see controlled lab tests, this is well done for real world conditions! Nicely done Vic. The extra energy density really shows in the second spin test.

Are you going to vent it in case of a failure to keep the potential of gas out of the cabin?

vic syracuse 01-10-2016 04:35 PM

Venting
 
Well, I didn't see any requirements for venting, and it is aft of the baggage, and the 10 has really lots of cabin airflow, so I didn't build a box for it.

VIc

kaweeka 01-11-2016 02:24 PM

Well, I took out the Odyssey and installed the Earth X ETX 680. It was certainly a snug fit as I had to wiggle the battery into the existing box on the firewall but is DID fit. I purchased the new box from Earth X but I think I'll send it back. The difference in cranking is significant. Cranking with the Odyssey was about 100 RPM. The new Earth X is 140 RPM. The old battery would take t tries to get the engine to crank, the new one just spins the prop no problem. Overall I'm quite happy. After start, charging amps were only 3.

EarthX Lithium 01-19-2016 08:51 AM

Press Release from EarthX
 
Dear Vans readers, as promised, we at EarthX said we would make new announcements here and we know many of you not only fly an RV but have other aircrafts as well, including a Sonex aircraft so here is our exciting press release news today:


EarthX now approved by Sonex Aircraft, LLC!
January 18, 2016, Windsor, CO
EarthX Motorsports is proud to announce that a Sonex Aircraft has become a dealer for the complete line of EarthX products. Sonex has tested the EarthX aircraft battery line and approves their use in Sonex Aircraft designs.
EarthX currently has 3 battery models designed specifically for the aircraft market; the ETX680, ETX900 and the ETX1200. EarthX lithium batteries can significantly decrease the weight of your aircraft (11+ pounds instantly) and increase your cranking amps all with one product! All of these aircraft models have a fully integrated battery management system (BMS) that is also redundant and have an LED battery fault light indicator that can be used in your EFIS system or a simple LED light on your panel. EarthX aircraft batteries meet the requirements set forth by Sonex Aircraft, for all Sonex engine installations, and for the AeroConversions AeroVee line of engines for use on any airframe. The BMS provides over discharge protection, over charge protection, short circuit protection, and excessive cranking protection (temperature sensing) in addition to integrated cell balancing technology. Check it out at www.earthxmotorsports.com

Sonex Aircraft, LLC is a leader in the experimental kit aircraft industry, providing a series of sport aircraft along with the AeroConversions line of products, which include the AeroVee engine, AeroVee Turbo, AeroInjector and ancillary aviation products. Sonex Aircraft?s Sonex, Waiex, and Onex sport planes, the Xenos sport motorglider, and the SubSonex Personal Jet, offer outstanding performance in an easy to build, easy to fly kit package that can be purchased and completed with full technical support at an unrivaled price. Highly regarded as an engineering company, Sonex has diversified its offerings to include the Teros line of UAV aircraft for civil and defense missions in conjunction with Navmar Applied Sciences Corporation. Sonex and AeroConversions continue to invest heavily in developing new products. Our team is committed to providing simple, elegant and low-cost solutions for sport flying. Simply put, Sonex Aircraft and AeroConversions products provide the Best Performance Per Dollar. Check us out at www.SonexAircraft.com and www.AeroConversions.com
__________________

civengpe 02-15-2016 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic syracuse (Post 1044001)
I was able to get some testing done today, and thought I would share with everyone here. I currently have an Odyssey PC925 in the RV10, and have always used that battery in both RV10's, changing it out every 3 years. The battery always tested good, but I really don't care to be stranded somewhere. It's 3 years since I installed the last one and time for a change, and I thought I would look into EarthX batteries again, seeing as they have some more choices now and a pretty good track record from what I can tell.
Kathy at EarthX was kind enough to send me both a ETX 900 and an ETX 1200 so I could compare them. I certainly don't have a lab for testing batteries, but here's what I decided to do:
Crank for 10 seconds and see what the rpm's were using an optical tach. Then run the full avionics load for 45 mins. Then crank for 10 seconds again and count RPM's and measure cranking voltage.

Here's what I got:

PC 925
  • initial voltage with everything on: 12.4 v
  • cranking rpms: 120
  • 30 minutes load: 11.8 v
  • 45 mins load 11.7
  • crank after 45 mins 80 rpm and 10.0 v

ETX 900
  • initial voltage with everything on 13.2
  • cranking rpm's 140
  • 30 mins load 12.7
  • 45 mins load 12.6
  • crank after 45 mins load 120-140 rpms 10.6 v

ETX 1200
  • initial voltage with everthing on 13.1v
  • crank 10 seconds 160 rpm
  • 30 mins load 12.8v
  • 45 mins load 12.7
  • crank after 45 mins 140 rpm 11.9v

Conclusions: either the 900 or the 1200 are adequate for the RV10 in my estimation. I was really impressed with the power out of a box that is so light!

As luck would have it my friend and fellow RV10 driver Ted Chipps needs a battery for his 10 and he chose the 900, so I will put the 1200 in mine and I will report back on this list of any findings. Hopefully we will be able to get some good long-term data from these 2 aircraft that are similarly equipped.

Kudos to Kathy and the team at Earthx!

Vic

Vic,
Would you kind posting som photos of the battery mounted in the 10?

Thanks,
Shannon

vic syracuse 02-16-2016 05:51 AM

Here is the original PC 925:



Here is the ETX 900. What you can't see here is that I put in wood filler blocks along the back side and rear to hold it in place. The normal tie down holder seems to work very well. Both batteries are very secure and are not going anywhere.




Here is the ETX 1200:



Vic

Blain 02-17-2016 11:12 PM

Stud size
 
Can someone tell me the stud size of the Earth X batt replacement for PC680?

Doing wiring and want to use the right terminals for this unit.

EarthX Lithium 02-18-2016 09:28 AM

6mm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blain (Post 1054948)
Can someone tell me the stud size of the Earth X batt replacement for PC680?

Doing wiring and want to use the right terminals for this unit.

Thanks for the question and it is the same size as the PC680 which is 6mm.

Fly Lightly!

Kathy

civengpe 02-18-2016 12:24 PM

Thanks Vic! I was wondering how well it would mount in the existing box.

Sam Staton 02-18-2016 04:57 PM

Sun-N-Fun
 
Kathy -
Will your company be there this year? I will be looking to examine your batteries very carefully and picking your corporate brains!

Sam

EarthX Lithium 02-18-2016 05:09 PM

Sorry Sam!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Staton (Post 1055130)
Kathy -
Will your company be there this year? I will be looking to examine your batteries very carefully and picking your corporate brains!

Sam

Thank you Sam for inquiring but we will not be at Sun-N-Fun this year. We did just attend the Sebring Airshow in January in Florida and we will be in Hangar C for Oshkosh in July. Please feel free to call me directly (970) 674-8884 and I will be very happy to talk to you directly.

Fly Lightly,
Kathy


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