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-   -   The all new Vertical Power Primary Power System (PPS) (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=125206)

cjensen 05-11-2015 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillL (Post 979190)
You have not talked about additional features. Back in the early '70's VW had this magic "diagnostic" plug that could do engine analysis at service intervals. Mostly it was premature and a failure, but it did have a couple of cool features that worked very well.

The first is compression test. When the engine was spun with the starter, it would measure the amp draw accurately enough that it would give a relative compression reading for each cylinder. The second was a battery discharge test. It would apply a small known resistive load and then record voltage drop and give an assessment in % of battery capacity. Both of these (and more) could be easily integrated into the new module. So - what new cool features can this thing do that, beyond just a replacement for the contractors, would add to a pilots confidence in the health of the airplane?

This would be a very cool feature Bill...one that I will put on the list of "upgrades" we may be able to do with the PPS down the road...first we need to get the unit in to production based on the original design parameters. :cool:
Quote:

Originally Posted by johninjax (Post 979590)
Ok, if this gives me something magic, I might see dropping the significant cash they are talking. I just haven't seen anything $1000 worth of wow (delta between what are talking and the cost of doing it the old way). Seriously, how is this going to make my life all rainbows and unicorns?

I'm not sure how to turn your life in to rainbows and unicorns, but we can make things more reliable than any mechanical device could ever dream of. We aren't focused so much on the cost of what we are replacing. We know we can't touch that price point, but we are focused on is safety, reliability, and ease of installation. The dollars worth of wow are in the eye of the customer who wishes to use solid state products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johninjax (Post 979590)
Anther issue. The battery connector is on the engine side of the firewall. My battery will be in the back. So I have to go through the firewall with the battery lead anyway. The main bus lug on the back doesn't really save me much by itself. If there was an alternate battery lug on the back, it would at least make that simpler. Or am I just misreading the intentions?

This is being discussed and may be an easy solution...I'll know more about this soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_H (Post 979977)
You guys at Vertical Power seem to know what you are doing. Would you consider making a replacement voltage regulator for the Rotax (RV-12)? One that works, lasts, and is heat tolerant?

Something to look in to for sure...it's not something that fits the current scope of products from VP, but I do keep a list for potential development projects. Thanks!

BDFLYER 09-30-2015 07:05 PM

ALT 1/2 is from Regulator in some cases
 
Going back to the comments on the Alternator 1 and 2 B leads being connected to the same lug:

In many cases, it is not the alternator that is being connected, it is the Regulator output. How does the PPS handle this scenario (such as with the ULPower 520is)? Should both alternator outputs be connected to this lug? I presume the guidance in the VP-X documentation for the installation of a protective relay for the regulator feed (page 30) does not apply when using the PSS?

jpmfgman 09-30-2015 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaigeHoffart (Post 979082)
I think it's hard to make the reliability argument when you haven't built a production unit, or done any testing.

Paige

.......Yep!

RV7Guy 09-30-2015 11:18 PM

Incorrect statement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jpmfgman (Post 1018221)
.......Yep!

You have some bad information. The PPS has been under flight testing for several months. The reliability has been excellent with tweaks, adjustments and a few mods taking place. Overall the product has worked as designed.

The selected Beta units will be shipping in the next week. Several will be installed and flown quickly adding more hours to the test program. Ballard is a quality company that will not release the product until ample testing and high reliability is achieved. The Beta testers will use and recommend any changes and mainly put hours not he product.

Hang in there!! This will be a quality product and will be worth the wait!!

PaigeHoffart 10-01-2015 06:09 AM

I kinda wish quotes showed the date of original posting. If you look back you'll see that statement was made in May when they were advertising a 3D printed mockup.

I do see a manual posted with a July date, although it's full of TBD.

http://verticalpower.com/docs/PPS_Manual.pdf

From what I can tell, the unit doesn't have any alternator control logic built in, it doesn't handle split buss systems, and I don't see any details on the overload protection.

Paige

cjensen 10-01-2015 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDFLYER (Post 1018213)
Going back to the comments on the Alternator 1 and 2 B leads being connected to the same lug:

In many cases, it is not the alternator that is being connected, it is the Regulator output. How does the PPS handle this scenario (such as with the ULPower 520is)? Should both alternator outputs be connected to this lug? I presume the guidance in the VP-X documentation for the installation of a protective relay for the regulator feed (page 30) does not apply when using the PSS?

Yes, whether B lead or reg output, both would go to the B lead post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV7Guy (Post 1018263)
You have some bad information. The PPS has been under flight testing for several months. The reliability has been excellent with tweaks, adjustments and a few mods taking place. Overall the product has worked as designed.

The selected Beta units will be shipping in the next week. Several will be installed and flown quickly adding more hours to the test program. Ballard is a quality company that will not release the product until ample testing and high reliability is achieved. The Beta testers will use and recommend any changes and mainly put hours not he product.

Hang in there!! This will be a quality product and will be worth the wait!!

99% correct...except the PPS has been in ground and lab testing for several months, flight testing begins this month. :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaigeHoffart (Post 1018285)
I kinda wish quotes showed the date of original posting. If you look back you'll see that statement was made in May when they were advertising a 3D printed mockup.

I do see a manual posted with a July date, although it's full of TBD.

http://verticalpower.com/docs/PPS_Manual.pdf

From what I can tell, the unit doesn't have any alternator control logic built in, it doesn't handle split buss systems, and I don't see any details on the overload protection.

Paige

Please do not use that manual for anything...the page you pasted is a cached page that has been removed if you refresh your browser on the docs page. That manual is for the original prototype from several years ago. The new manual will be posted once we get through beta testing this fall and winter.

BDFLYER 11-30-2016 08:18 PM

Chad - any updates on availability?

sblack 11-30-2016 09:14 PM

Perhaps they realized the business case just wasn't there?

cjensen 12-01-2016 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDFLYER (Post 1130886)
Chad - any updates on availability?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sblack (Post 1130900)
Perhaps they realized the business case just wasn't there?

Hi guys,

It's still coming...we have had some challenges with getting it working reliably. This was a much bigger nut to crack that anyone anticipated, but engineering meetings are still occurring on this on a weekly basis. The beta units are still being tested, and beta test 2.0 (not official, that's just my version of it) is going to see the mods integrated.

We are still shooting for the 2nd quarter 2017. I will be at the factory in January and I'll have a much better idea at that point.

BDFLYER 12-06-2016 10:36 PM

Ouch. Not the expected timeline. Kinda means back to the drawing board for many of us builders.


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