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HBpilot 04-29-2015 09:01 AM

IFR requirements
 
I have read pages and pages on the internet and on this board, but really I need some input from other builders.
While I am still far away from installing avionics, I am trying to plan the strategy mostly for financial planning purpose. I know that avionics change every year, but I am trying to understand the necessary requirements for what I am trying to accomplish.

My goal is to build an airplane that will mostly fly VFR, but occasionally IFR too. Let me clarify that, I am not a fan of flying single engine with less than 1000ft ceiling (not the debate here). My goal is to be able to file IFR and get to destination and fly an LNAV approach. I do not need an ILS or even a VOR receiver. It is my understanding that they will be decommissioned in the future anyway.

I read the IFR equipment requirement, and was wondering if my planned configuration would fit the purpose with the regulation.

I would install a simple Dynon D10 or similar (I read a whole thread on how it cannot display or display the CDI with the attitude indicator, but then again not the point here). Would that satisfy the Instrument requirement to be certified IFR ?

For the GPS, my understanding is that to just fly an LNAV approach it doesn't have to be a WAAS certified GPS. What else do I have to look for when buying a GPS, in order to be approved for what I want to do ? Any model recommendation as an example (ADS-B compatible) ?

Comm and xpdr. Do they have to be TSO to be IFR approved ?

I am planning to also get one of the system like iLevil for crosscountry flying, etc... It has a GPS (used as backup), ADS-B integrated, etc... I know there is an issue with ipad overheating, that is my main concern. Any bad experience with such system ?

Autopilot ??? Big mystery to me. I would like to be able to couple it to the flight plan and altitude hold. Any cheap suggestions ?

It seems to me that as far as redundancy, the D-10 has its own backup power and so does the iLevil. Only concern would be the pitot tube. Do people install 2 pitot tubes (heated, unheated).

I read so many contradictory comments about whether you can use TSO vs non TSO equipment in an experimental aircraft. How about for required equipment for IFR rating ?

Any good link that would answer these questions is welcomed.

Thanks for your help.

ChiefPilot 04-29-2015 09:20 AM

The great thing about VAF is there is a lot of information here. An even better thing is that sometimes that information is correct.

Basically, any approach-capable GPS will do an LNAV approach. Older units which were certified under TSO129 will require a VOR receiver in addition - this requirement is regulatory in nature and not technical i.e. the GPS doesn't depend or interface with the VOR receiver in order to accomplish the approach.

The information about the Dynon D10A not being able to display a CDI along with the attitude indicator is false. I have done dozens and dozens of approaches this way. The CDI is displayed along the bottom of the attitude indicator page for lateral guidance.

The autopilot built into the D10A works great - I've used it many times. It is basic compared to what is built into the more expensive EFIS systems but it is far more capable than what is typically found in the GA fleet. Heading, track, or GPS for lateral nav and altitude hold w/pre-select is built-in - just add the servos and wiring.

The comm and transponder don't really have an IFR approval, but the transponder does have to be capable of meeting the relevant TSO. I'm not aware of any sold today or within recent memory that don't meet this requirement.

I only installed one pitot tube (heated, w/aoa). I couldn't think of any realistic scenario where a second pitot system significantly reduced any risk, but it certainly increases cost, weight, and complexity.

BobTurner 04-29-2015 09:45 AM

Above post is correct.
Transponder has to meet TSO, even for VFR use.
For ifr use the gps must meet a TSO. Older, non WAAS units have TSO 129. King KLN 89B, Garmin 300, for example. They can only do non precision LNAV approaches, and you are supposed to have back up equipment, e.g., VOR. These are available used, new TSO 129 boxes are no longer sold. New boxes meet TSO 145/146 (I think) and are WAAS capable. They can usually do precision LPV approaches as well as LNAV. No back up is required. They are supposed to be installed as outlined in their installation manuals, with restrictions on antenna placement and viewing angles, etc. Do not confuse WAAS and TSO. Lots of WAAS gps boxes are available, but few are TSO'd. The least expensive TSO'd new ifr navigator is probably the Garmin 400W.
You asked about getting an ifr rating? The current PTS requires that you demonstrate three different types of approaches, one of them either an ILS or an LPV. So while you can take the test in an airplane with just a VOR/localizer/glide slope (ILS; then VOR, LOC, or SDF approaches) you cannot take the test in an airplane with just gps, that only gives you two types. Strictly speaking the same is true for an IPC.

BobTurner 04-29-2015 09:51 AM

About ADSB out: none of the TSO 129 boxes can be used after 2020.
All of the TSO 145 boxes meet the FAR 91.227 requirements, but watch out! they use different data transmission formats; you must make sure your transmitter (mode SES transponder or UAT) can read your box. Or there are stand alone gps boxes for ADSB only (same communication issue).

HBpilot 04-29-2015 10:33 AM

Are there any GPS receiver/antenna that are WAAS and TSO 145/146 compliant, that could be used with an ipad as interface for flight planning, and that could be coupled with the D-10 to use during approaches ?
Having 2 GPS receiver, would that count as a backup ?
Dont know what is more difficult, planning ahead and understanding it, or the actual wiring ? LOL (that's because I dont know about the latter one yet)

HBpilot 04-29-2015 10:36 AM

what are the cheapest options for autopilots ? nav coupling and alt hold.

rleffler 04-29-2015 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBpilot (Post 978875)
Are there any GPS receiver/antenna that are WAAS and TSO 145/146 compliant, that could be used with an ipad as interface for flight planning, and that could be coupled with the D-10 to use during approaches ?
Having 2 GPS receiver, would that count as a backup ?
Dont know what is more difficult, planning ahead and understanding it, or the actual wiring ? LOL (that's because I dont know about the latter one yet)

Sort of, but not necessarily with the equipment mix you mentioned.

Garmin has a wifi input from the Garmin Pilot application to their GTN6xx/7xx

Dynon/AFS just announced wifi input from Foreflight, but the interface is to AFS 5xxx or Dynon Skyview.

This is an area in which technology is constantly evolving. I would expect to see new products/features announced quarterly.

If I understand your backup question I think you are referring to the old TSO 129 requirement for a backup device. No, another GPS doesn't count. They are looking for a VOR, NDB, etc.

rleffler 04-29-2015 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBpilot (Post 978876)
what are the cheapest options for autopilots ? nav coupling and alt hold.

This is another area in which technology has changed over the last couple of years. In years past, you purchase an autopilot head that had a certain list of features/functions. Some had more and some had less.

Many of the EFIS vendors now have EFIS that can control autopilot servos directly with out requiring an external autopilot head device. This has the benefit of providing more features/functions at a lower price. The only downside is related to risk management and redundancy which I won't elaborate on here. That quickly becomes a religious debate with no universally correct answer.

But don't expect that EFIS that's been on the market for awhile to support AP servos. Talk with your avionics vendor to determine your options and cost.

Raymo 04-29-2015 11:35 AM

An example of one I installed recently in a Lanceair is:

Dynon:
Skyview Touch
ARINC-429
Engine monitor
COM
I-Com
261 Transponder
Autopilot servos
Dual AD-ADHRS

Plus:
Garmin 430W (TSO'd) which feeds legal position data to the Dynon 261 XPNDR (required for 2020 legal ADS-B) and NAV antenna for VOR (Garmin only).

Without the 430W, it would not be legal for IFR today. Hopefully the FAA follows their ADS-B logic allowing equipment that meets TSO requirements to be used in experimental AC.

EDIT: corrected

ChiefPilot 04-29-2015 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBpilot (Post 978876)
what are the cheapest options for autopilots ? nav coupling and alt hold.

If you already have a Dynon D10A, the autopilot servos will add about $1500 and give you those capabilities plus a couple other minor additions. If you go standalone (TruTrak etc.) expect to pay a bit more.

Opinion:
The autopilot (and similar magic) is a nice tool to have, but too many pilots depend on it too heavily and are only marginally capable of flying in IMC by hand. This lack of ability has brought down airplanes far larger than an RV in cases where the magic stopped working and is something to consider while doing your IFR work.


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