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Zip ties don't really belong in the engine compartment.
The only place they're used on big airplanes is in the pressurized areas. The hot/cold cycles make them brittle and never in a high vibration area. Glad it's an easy fix. |
Don't use tie wraps. I am shocked your DAR signed off on that plan. Mine told me long before he ever saw my plane, a single tie wrap firewall forward and you fail the inspection.
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And there are some stainless zip ties as well, although those might cause chafing or other issues if not installed properly. As Paul said, depends on the job whether they can be utilized safely.
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Interesting to me how many tie wraps Lycoming sent with a brand new engine as part of the hardware kit to secure the spark plug cables. You'd think they know...
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A friends $3,500,000 TBM 850 came from the factory with tie wraps all over the engine compartment. I think Paul said it best.
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The inspectors at Oshkosh said the same thing while inspecting my engine compartment. No tie wraps. They said they will do the same thing to your engine mount as the photo above did to the aluminum pipe. I dunno if it's true or not of course, as I followed my DAR's directive and everything is done with adel clamps. Considering how easy it is to clamp everything and use sparkplug wire separators on the sparkplug wires, I can't say I was ever tempted to argue it out with the DAR, unlike the ridiculous wet compass requirement.
I can't think of any good reason to use zip ties firewall forward. I used a few hundred of them for initial wire bundling in the fuselage but once complete used the tie methods called out in the bible (Ac43). The great thing about these planes though is we get to do what we want (as long as your DAR isn't the pain in the butt mine was). Obviously there are tie wraps out there that will work firewall forward. There are far more that will do what the photo above did. We each spend our money and make our own decisions. How many of those 3.5M TBM's came with Lycoming vibration generators? |
mt props
check out the hub on an mtv 7 c prop.
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Use them properly. If you are wrapping them around something, put Rescue Tape on the something first. Two ties can make an excellent standoff to hold things in place with no chafing. Sheesh!
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Tie wraps
Strong opinions have been expressed in this thread, and do not always agree with real world experience - at least mine. We have a 1981 Pitts S-2A which was purchased new with many tie wraps in the FWF area. In about 1300 hours we have added many new tie wraps and replaced some that looked or felt marginal. Not a single one has broken. That's 33 years. Many are the common hardware store variety. If they tie around a motor mount tube or other metal structure they are placed over a layer of rubber tape. We've had no chafing or damage to metal or to wire bundles. My RV-8 is just finished and the Chief inspector from the FAA loves tie-wraps FWF and favors using them extensively. I used Adel clamps in some areas but also a lot of tie wraps. Hopefully they'll last as well on the -8 as they have on the Pitts. After some flying time has accumulated I'll try to give a follow up. Anybody else have some long term real experience to share?
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Same experience Bill, just shorter term. During my first Condition Inspection following my purchase, the A&P/IA had me remove all the tie wraps that were directly on the engine mount, and reinstall new ones with rescue tape or fuel hose segments protecting the mount. Showed me how to make standoffs with them as well, and to use adels, when that is a good solution. I take a good look at installed ties and clamps to look for breakage and slippage when the cowl is off as well. Knowing what tie wraps can do to unprotected metal is a good lesson from the OP.
Cheers, Bob |
These work very well for me in a few locations FWF.
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My 2008 G36 Bonanza has them FWF in many places... If you get the blue tefzel tie wraps, they'll survive that environment just fine, but they are expensive. As in all things, it depends!
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Then along comes a DAR who makes up a new rule about tie wraps and threatens failure if there's even *one* FWF. Not "don't use them directly on X parts, because they'll wear through the part and that's unsafe" or anything like that. Nope...can't have 'em. Period. What gives with inspectors or DARs making up their own rules? Some examples I recall: No nylock nuts FWF (despite the fact that Lycoming ships their engines with nylock nuts in certain places) Refusal to accept nylocks on props (as shipped from Hartzell) "Requirement" for red fuel caps Insisting on .040 lockwire on props, despite Hartzell service instructions specifying .032 Requiring "wet compasses" in EFIS-equipped aircraft Requiring A&P "sign-offs" prior to the DAR doing the inspection *Numerous* "challenges" to Van's plans (forcing builders to change a design in some small or large way which deviates from the kit plans...changing rudder stop locations, using a single pin in the seat back hinge and safetying it, How about the guy in this thread? The list goes on and on...wildly varying standards of inspection, huge discrepancies between the regulations and what some require of builders (essentially holding their A/W certificate hostage unless/until the builder complies), fabricated rules, regulations or best practices, etc. And on the other hand, there are highly competent, skilled, knowledgeable DARs and inspectors out there who do a great job (both at the formal paperwork and at helping ensure the aircraft is safe). Nearly 9,000 RVs flying now, you'd think that EAB inspections would be getting significantly more consistent FSDO-to-FSDO, inspector-to-inspector, but I don't see it... |
Ty-wraps
When using Ty-wraps, I first run a piece of heat shrink over it on the section that tightens on the tube. kinda protects the tubing and have not noticed any chaffing in many many hours.
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I use them sparingly FWF. Silicon tape works well for a backing and will not degrade like vinyl or others types of tape.
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