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-   -   ASA New Product Video is up! (July 2014) (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=115072)

DanH 07-11-2014 10:06 PM

Perhaps your friends here won't appreciate your choice, considering their unaddressed safety-of-flight issue.

DanH 07-12-2014 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantel (Post 896830)
If your talking about the oil separator/vacuum valve fiasco..
Until the past few days I did not realize this issue was as big as it appears to be and if it is that widespread, I would agree, it needs to be addressed!

And how might a socially responsible consumer encourage a vendor to sincerely address an existing problem?

JonJay 07-12-2014 08:08 AM

All this stuff.... I'm going to go fly the Champ. :D

David Paule 07-12-2014 08:21 AM

Having been an early adopter frequently in the past, I have a deep and profound respect for successful old technology.

Dave

krw5927 07-12-2014 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 896857)
And how might a socially responsible consumer encourage a vendor to sincerely address an existing problem?

Are we still talking about cowl flaps? If not, this is some seriously confusing thread drift.

Randy 07-12-2014 06:52 PM

I have a pair coming
 
Has anyone received theirs yet, and can possibly tell me what is involved with the wiring?

Do they come with wire and connectors?

I would not have to ask if I were home with all my tools and building supplies, but out here where I am I need to order in wire etc if needed.

Randall in Carlsbad NM
Built RV7A and went through 4 Subes...
New to me RV6A with all very standard stuff in it:)

rmartingt 07-12-2014 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmerems (Post 896572)
I think Allen is on the right track. One concern is for "aircraft use". I use a commercial spring in my dimpling tool. Originally the manufacture not sell it to me because they thought it was going to be used in an airplane. After I explained it was for use in a tool they sold it to me.

If Allen's design takes off, purchasing thousands of actuators might raise a red flag. Hope it doesn't.

Tell them it's for a "three-wheeled off-road vehicle" ;)

Mel 07-12-2014 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartingt (Post 897030)
Tell them it's for a "three-wheeled off-road vehicle" ;)

You might want to leave off the "three-wheeled" part. Those aren't too popular with parts suppliers either.

APACHE 56 07-13-2014 01:08 PM

Sure looks promising and...
 
I hope the field trials are successful. One very small suggestion though; get the Sham-Wow guy to do your videos.

PerfTech 07-13-2014 08:44 PM

I'm confused
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantel (Post 896859)
I hear you Dan...in my case I was a little slow realizing the issue was as widespread as it is. Not been following closely, my bad!

... Considering the fact that I have been marketing this product, and oil separators since 1970 and have literally thousands in use with no problems reported. I think perhaps "wide spread" might be somewhat strong or misleading. I have been contacted by three people (all in the last two years) telling us of a problem they encountered. Two were coking problems, both of these, on RV-10s. We contacted our dealers, posted this issue ourselves on all the experimental forums, thus making people aware of a potential problem and telling them how to verify that they weren't effected. Everyone reported that the problem was non existent on their installation. Because of this potential problem, I am stopping sales of the vacuum systems for the RV-10s until we can determine through more testing the cause on the two reported coking issues. The other issue was with one of the valves, where it had came loose inside where riveted together and parts began to rattle. This was addressed by going to a more robust / expensive valve assembly on subsequent units. I hardly think our actions makes us appear irresponsible in any way. Also I don't believe these people with this "wide spread" issue would make some uninvolved third party aware of it and neglect contacting the manufacturer so it could be addressed and remedied. If these people are out there? Please, contact us immediately so we can help you. We stand behind all of our products and services 100% and strive to offer the most exemplary customer service humanly possible. Contact me personally if you find this not the case. :confused: Thanks, Allan

PerfTech 07-13-2014 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APACHE 56 (Post 897182)
I hope the field trials are successful. One very small suggestion though; get the Sham-Wow guy to do your videos.

....We did have another guy say it was to long and I think he may be right! What can I say? I try my best and many people do like the videos. Thanks, Allan..:D

DanH 07-13-2014 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfTech (Post 897310)
Considering the fact that I have been marketing this product, and oil separators since 1970 and have literally thousands in use with no problems reported....

So far, you have seven owners (five 10's, a 7 and a 9) with public reports of blockages in a thread here on VAF, in just the last two weeks. The grapevine has been rumbling since S&F. Sorry, just the facts.

The trend says it's the tip of an iceberg. Let's see what happens as the fleet hours roll up on the whole trifecta...plugged evacuators, stubby HS spar doublers as substitutes for the factory kit, and 50C actuators.

Steve Melton 07-14-2014 04:59 AM

I liked the video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfTech (Post 897314)
....We did have another guy say it was to long and I think he may be right! What can I say? I try my best and many people do like the videos. Thanks, Allan..:D

I thought the video was good. The best one to date.

Brantel 07-14-2014 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfTech (Post 897310)
... Considering the fact that I have been marketing this product, and oil separators since 1970 and have literally thousands in use with no problems reported. I think perhaps "wide spread" might be somewhat strong or misleading. I have been contacted by three people (all in the last two years) telling us of a problem they encountered. Two were coking problems, both of these, on RV-10s. We contacted our dealers, posted this issue ourselves on all the experimental forums, thus making people aware of a potential problem and telling them how to verify that they weren't effected. Everyone reported that the problem was non existent on their installation. Because of this potential problem, I am stopping sales of the vacuum systems for the RV-10s until we can determine through more testing the cause on the two reported coking issues. The other issue was with one of the valves, where it had came loose inside where riveted together and parts began to rattle. This was addressed by going to a more robust / expensive valve assembly on subsequent units. I hardly think our actions makes us appear irresponsible in any way. Also I don't believe these people with this "wide spread" issue would make some uninvolved third party aware of it and neglect contacting the manufacturer so it could be addressed and remedied. If these people are out there? Please, contact us immediately so we can help you. We stand behind all of our products and services 100% and strive to offer the most exemplary customer service humanly possible. Contact me personally if you find this not the case. :confused: Thanks, Allan

Allan,

Since I have zero experience with these things and the issue at hand, I would prefer to get out of this conversation and stay out. Somehow I got sucked into being the middle man in this conversation and I am out....

I look forward to trying out the cowl flaps which is what this thread is about :p

NYTOM 07-14-2014 07:18 AM

50C actuators.
 
Since temps are no problem in flight, couldn't you just open the cowl flap door after engine shut down till things cool down. I would think there would be a pretty good reverse air flow over the unit. Allen thanks for developing this.

PerfTech 07-14-2014 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYTOM (Post 897387)
Since temps are no problem in flight, couldn't you just open the cowl flap door after engine shut down till things cool down. I would think there would be a pretty good reverse air flow over the unit. Allen thanks for developing this.

... Yes! This helps cool down and is what I have been doing. Thanks, Allan..:D

HSANTIBANEZ 07-14-2014 08:46 AM

Might be another thoughts
 
I dont know why but these is not the first time that Allan launch a new product and get a full investigation to make his products trash.

might be another thoughts...

In these case if the actuator fail it is no risk to have a mayor failure. If some body dont like the product dont buy it.

PerfTech 07-14-2014 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH (Post 897327)
So far, you have seven owners (five 10's, a 7 and a 9) with public reports of blockages in a thread here on VAF, in just the last two weeks. The grapevine has been rumbling since S&F. Sorry, just the facts.

The trend says it's the tip of an iceberg. Let's see what happens as the fleet hours roll up on the whole trifecta...plugged evacuators, stubby HS spar doublers as substitutes for the factory kit, and 50C actuators.

... Like I said, I find it very strange that any effected owners (other than the ones I stated) have failed to contact ASA with a product issue. I sincerely hope they do when seeing this, so we can be of service. Thanks, Allan..:confused:

Bavafa 07-14-2014 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSANTIBANEZ (Post 897409)
I dont know why but these is not the first time that Allan launch a new product and get a full investigation to make his products trash.

might be another thoughts...

Not only I don’t sense it that way, I do appreciate it when an alternative view and information is provided which some of us might not be experienced enough to note.

This is especially valuable for me when the alternative view is presented with engineering reasoning and facts which is the case here.

APACHE 56 07-14-2014 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfTech (Post 897314)
.... I try my best and many people do like the videos. Thanks, Allan..:D

Allan,
I was just having a little fun with you. Your video is just fine. You come across as earnest and honest and I don't think the "Sham-Wow" could pull that off.

moll780 07-14-2014 01:36 PM

i want one!

NYTOM 07-14-2014 03:21 PM

Experts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavafa (Post 897429)
Not only I don?t sense it that way, I do appreciate it when an alternative view and information is provided which some of us might not be experienced enough to note.

This is especially valuable for me when the alternative view is presented with engineering reasoning and facts which is the case here.

True, but sometimes that alternate engineering reasoning is just opinion and any facts are not really facts till checked. :rolleyes:
Just saying. There sure are a lot of opinions around here and you know what they say about opinions!:D

Bavafa 07-14-2014 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYTOM (Post 897561)
True, but sometimes that alternate engineering reasoning is just opinion and any facts are not really facts till checked. :rolleyes:
Just saying. There sure are a lot of opinions around here and you know what they say about opinions!:D

Absolutely, but I also believe that some opinions carry more credibility than others which in the context of this discussion is often established thru display of craftsmanship, technical knowledge/knowhow and sound reasoning.

Steve Melton 07-14-2014 04:44 PM

braking
 
is there any braking benefit when opening the cowl on approach?

Mel 07-14-2014 05:06 PM

Normally with cowl flaps, it's best to keep them closed on approach to reduce excessive engine cooling.
I don't think you'll see any speed reduction at approach speeds.

PerfTech 07-14-2014 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Melton (Post 897584)
is there any braking benefit when opening the cowl on approach?

...Need to agree with Mel on this one but I did play with it and was no detectable difference. One thing I did find very surprising though. I went to a cruising altitude, trimmed and set the auto pilot at 170 kts. I waited and let everything settle down then opened both cowl flaps to see the effect on speed. To my surprise it was only about 2 to 3 kts. I was sure it would be more than that. I think this is great! Thanks, Allan...:D

Pmerems 07-14-2014 07:27 PM

Photos of your cowl?
 
Allan,

Do you have any photos of the inside of you lower cowl with the cowl flap installed? There are a few variations of Vettermen exhausts produced over the years. Also the heat muffs also vary in location. Do you have photos from some of the beta testers installationsl that might show the cowl flap installed on aircaft with the varying exhaust systems

Any images would be helpful.

PerfTech 07-14-2014 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pmerems (Post 897651)
Allan,

Do you have any photos of the inside of you lower cowl with the cowl flap installed? There are a few variations of Vettermen exhausts produced over the years. Also the heat muffs also vary in location. Do you have photos from some of the beta testers installationsl that might show the cowl flap installed on aircaft with the varying exhaust systems

Any images would be helpful.

... I am sorry but the photos I have probably are not what you need. I will post a few here and on next cowl removal I will shoot some good ones. This is the exhaust system on my RV-9 and is the most popular one. Also you can see my heat shields that stop the radiated heat from attacking the cowl etc.
.

.

.

.

.

.

.
Thanks, Allan...:D

PerfTech 07-14-2014 09:41 PM

Almost Forgot This!!!!
 
....Here are the pressure differential numbers we gathered on my airplane (RV-9A). These percentages of increases were typical of what was gathered on all the other tests aircraft with stock Vans factory cowl. We installed a second unit and tested the improvement as many people were ordering two and ask for this differential information.
.

.:D

mtnclimber 07-14-2014 10:12 PM

Alan, You mention "percentages of increase", but these look like absolute numbers. What are the units of pressure measurement?

Roger

morganjp 07-15-2014 07:25 AM

As a user of the anti splat gear leg stiffener and gust lock I am a believer in Alan's products. I also suffer from high CHT's on climb out, but what I would really like to know is what kind of CHT temp drop various RV's are getting with 1 and or 2 cowl flaps. I am looking forward to reports from early adapters of the product before I purchase one or two.

It would be great if someone has them and can report at the Oshkosh beer blast!

John Morgan

Brantel 07-15-2014 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morganjp (Post 897756)
As a user of the anti splat gear leg stiffener and gust lock I am a believer in Alan's products. I also suffer from high CHT's on climb out, but what I would really like to know is what kind of CHT temp drop various RV's are getting with 1 and or 2 cowl flaps. I am looking forward to reports from early adapters of the product before I purchase one or two.

It would be great if someone has them and can report at the Oshkosh beer blast!

John Morgan

I am taking the risk and will be starting my install this evening as long as UPS does their job...will report. I am encouraged by the DP numbers that Allan posted.

DISCLAIMER: Please make up your own mind as to the value of any product that I review here on VAF. I like to review the products that I buy and use. Typically I tell it like it is and include my likes and my dislikes. In this case I am a guy with a problem keeping his CHT's under control during climbout on hot days and Allan came along and offered a commercial solution to my problem. I am taking the risk of trying his new product by buying/installing/using them and will report my experience here in this thread. As always Your Results May Vary!

rvator51 07-15-2014 07:51 AM

I think that Alan reported a 20-25 degree drop in CHTs in his video using one cowl flap.

Brantel 07-15-2014 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy (Post 897020)
Has anyone received theirs yet, and can possibly tell me what is involved with the wiring?

Do they come with wire and connectors?

I would not have to ask if I were home with all my tools and building supplies, but out here where I am I need to order in wire etc if needed.

Randall in Carlsbad NM
Built RV7A and went through 4 Subes...
New to me RV6A with all very standard stuff in it:)

Mine came with the switch, LED and wire with the model airplane servo style connectors on em. Some cutting/stripping and soldering required. This wire is not aircraft grade Tefzel. You must provide your own circuit protection. The spec sheet says that the stalled out current draw is 650mA for one actuator so plan ahead accordingly.

DISCLAIMER: Please make up your own mind as to the value of any product that I review here on VAF. I like to review the products that I buy and use. Typically I tell it like it is and include my likes and my dislikes. In this case I am a guy with a problem keeping his CHT's under control during climbout on hot days and Allan came along and offered a commercial solution to my problem. I am taking the risk of trying his new product by buying/installing/using them and will report my experience here in this thread. As always Your Results May Vary!

Brantel 07-15-2014 09:01 PM

Got my cowl flaps from Allan today and started the install. Pics to follow when I am done but the units are very well made and all the parts are precision cut. If the actuator can old up to the temp, I see no reason why the aluminum parts of these things won't last the lifetime of the airframe.

I do have a minor but solvable issue with the fact that my cowl is thicker than what was expected by about 0.030". My cowl is of the early pink cowl time frame if that matters.

I decided to seal up the edges of the honeycomb with some epoxy/micro mix and that is curing overnight.

DISCLAIMER: Please make up your own mind as to the value of any product that I review here on VAF. I like to review the products that I buy and use. Typically I tell it like it is and include my likes and my dislikes. In this case I am a guy with a problem keeping his CHT's under control during climbout on hot days and Allan came along and offered a commercial solution to my problem. I am taking the risk of trying his new product by buying/installing/using them and will report my experience here in this thread. As always Your Results May Vary!

Brantel 07-16-2014 09:54 AM

Here is the measurement of the thickness of the blank I cut out of the bottom of my pepto pink cowl:



Found the flatest spot in the cowl to install and stay on the honeycomb area for consistent thickness. Should clear the exhaust easily.



I used epoxy and micro mixed up thick as peanut butter and filled the exposed edges of the honeycomb where the cuts were made. Let that cure overnight and then went back and filed/sanded it all smooth. I then painted the edge to match the cowl and to seal it all up. This worked out very well.





Painted the flaps to match the cowl.



Here you can see what is almost the end result. I plan to use some stainless 6-32 button head screws to make it easy to remove if I need to for maintenance.







As you can see the cowl is not perfectly flat in this area but it is not as bad as the digital camera makes it appear in pics. It seems the design of the units will accept a certain amount of curvature and they also will pull the cowl a little bit and the combo of the two makes it a OK...

I decided that I am not going to mess around with trying to make the surface of the flap match exactly the surface of the cowl. It is close enough for me and to apply a fix may not be worth the effort.

More to come as progress continues....

DISCLAIMER: Please make up your own mind as to the value of any product that I review here on VAF. I like to review the products that I buy and use. Typically I tell it like it is and include my likes and my dislikes. In this case I am a guy with a problem keeping his CHT's under control during climbout on hot days and Allan came along and offered a commercial solution to my problem. I am taking the risk of trying his new product by buying/installing/using them and will report my experience here in this thread. As always Your Results May Vary!

alpinelakespilot2000 07-16-2014 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantel (Post 898136)
More to come as progress continues....

Thanks for the progress report, Brian! I'm sure there are a lot of us very interested in how it turns out for you in terms of temp. deltas with flaps closed vs. open.

PerfTech 07-16-2014 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnclimber (Post 897704)
Alan, You mention "percentages of increase", but these look like absolute numbers. What are the units of pressure measurement?

Roger

... These are inches of water column pressure. The numbers stated represent the differential pressure from the top cowl to the bottom cowl. Thanks, Allan...:D

APACHE 56 07-16-2014 05:06 PM

Good report
 
Anxiously awaiting the flight test data/report.

NYTOM 07-16-2014 05:29 PM

Allan's going sell a ton with the help of your photos.
 
Nice job Brian. Your photos make me want to order two right now. Can't wait to see the results.


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