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-   -   Check those fuel lines... (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=107479)

Walt 12-10-2013 06:26 PM

Check those fuel lines...
 
I hate when I find this stuff, it's a lot of work to fix :mad:
All this stuff in the tunnel of a 10

Leak at fuel selector



Leak at feedthru from tank L/H side (notice the blue staining on insulation)



Leak at fuel pump 'T'



Making your own FWF hoses? Maximum gap allowed between nut and collar is 1/16" (this one is over a 1/4")



If your flares look like either one of these you've got more work to do!





Quick tutorial on flaring. One of the more important things is lubricating the cone before starting the process, if you don't you will "smear" the metal in the flare.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/s...01/?pg=80#pg80

Vlad 12-10-2013 06:48 PM

Hi Walt. Not to hijack the subject but you are a great RV anatomist what's that extra port on stock Vans selector for? Can I plumb aux cabin tank into it?



bird 12-10-2013 06:55 PM

Yes you can.


Bird

Vlad 12-10-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bird (Post 833409)
Yes you can.


Bird


Thanks. I assume a corresponding position of the handle opens it, am I right?

Mark Dickens 12-10-2013 07:05 PM

WOW
 
How many hours on that plane?

RickWoodall 12-10-2013 07:13 PM

Vlad
 
Where you thinking of going now Vlad. A third tank... BIG TRIP?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::p

Walt 12-10-2013 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Dickens (Post 833413)
How many hours on that plane?

Less than you would think...

Vlad 12-10-2013 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickWoodall (Post 833415)
Where you thinking of going now Vlad. A third tank... BIG TRIP?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::p


Not THAT big. Just visiting Birthplace of the Winds :)

TS Flightlines 12-10-2013 07:43 PM

Gee Walt----great catch. Thank you for taking pics for everyone to see.
This get serious in a BIG hurry.
Tom

Wayne Gillispie 12-10-2013 07:46 PM

Is it a diesel powered -10? I noticed the yellow jugs for draining the tanks.

Walt 12-10-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Gillispie (Post 833434)
Is it a diesel powered -10? I noticed the yellow jugs for draining the tanks.

Funny.. no diesel, without the kerosene heater running I can't feel my hands!
This weather is just not right for Texas!

BillL 12-10-2013 08:15 PM

Thanks for sharing Walt, you find a lot of stuff, too bad you aren't closer, I could use your eye. Meanwhile, I was planning on pressure (air) testing my fuel system in stages. 1. fuel pump assay, 2. 1+ selector valve and all cabin connections. Then that leaves each tank, and FWF. The plan was to use 50 psi and let it linger and if pressure drops then search for the leak. Fantastik works well for this purpose, taking care for drips on the aluminum of course. I have plugs for the connections and will not use an addition volume of air.

What do you think about this progressive validation approach?

Thanks in advance.

Toobuilder 12-10-2013 08:17 PM

But wait! It has torque stripe on the fittings... how could it leak? ;)

Wayne Gillispie 12-10-2013 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833443)
Funny.. no diesel, without the kerosene heater running I can't feel my hands!
This weather is just not right for Texas!

Hey, stay warm and thanks for posting.

Walt 12-10-2013 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillL (Post 833445)
Thanks for sharing Walt, you find a lot of stuff, too bad you aren't closer, I could use your eye. Meanwhile, I was planning on pressure (air) testing my fuel system in stages. 1. fuel pump assay, 2. 1+ selector valve and all cabin connections. Then that leaves each tank, and FWF. The plan was to use 50 psi and let it linger and if pressure drops then search for the leak. Fantastik works well for this purpose, taking care for drips on the aluminum of course. I have plugs for the connections and will not use an addition volume of air.

What do you think about this progressive validation approach?

Thanks in advance.

I personally like testing with fuel, others may have good luck with air but I've seen plenty of tanks that were "pressure" tested with air leak when fuel was put in them.

Plumbing is really pretty simple stuff, goop the pipe threads and tighten the **** out of them, then make a good flare and put it together, look ma no leaks

Wayne Gillispie 12-10-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillL (Post 833445)
Thanks for sharing Walt, you find a lot of stuff, too bad you aren't closer, I could use your eye. Meanwhile, I was planning on pressure (air) testing my fuel system in stages. 1. fuel pump assay, 2. 1+ selector valve and all cabin connections. Then that leaves each tank, and FWF. The plan was to use 50 psi and let it linger and if pressure drops then search for the leak. Fantastik works well for this purpose, taking care for drips on the aluminum of course. I have plugs for the connections and will not use an addition volume of air.

What do you think about this progressive validation approach?

Thanks in advance.

I used this...

http://www.waresdirect.com/products/...FepaMgodT1gAOA

and this...

http://www.amazon.com/UEi-Test-Instr.../dp/B000HHTY7Q

Or pay your HVAC guy a svc call to check for you. They should have both of these items. Use nothing corrosive around your plane or it may come back to bite down the road.

Walt 12-10-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toobuilder (Post 833447)
But wait! It has torque stripe on the fittings... how could it leak? ;)

Very good, Daniel-san!

wjb 12-10-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833399)
One of the more important things is lubricating the cone before starting the process, if you don't you will "smear" the metal in the flare.

I've found that the aviation isle of my favorite bike shop has a good, light lube for flaring:

http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/epic.htm

Kerosene is often recommended; I don't have that around the house, but this I do. The flares come out very smooth ad pretty ... unlike the ones posted in here.

Tim 8-A 12-10-2013 09:19 PM

OMG those flares look terrible, it's hard to catch in a Prebuy.
I was afraid it was going to turn ugly when you got into the tunnel.
Thanks for taking to time to make it right.

Mark Dickens 12-11-2013 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833456)
goop the pipe threads and tighten the **** out of them

My understanding was that AN fittings were to be installed with dry threads...I take it that I am misinformed?

catmandu 12-11-2013 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833443)
Funny.. no diesel, without the kerosene heater running I can't feel my hands!
This weather is just not right for Texas!

OH, MY, GAWD!

Kero in a yellow container? Guvmint man gonna git you! :)

(I've actually had people chastise me about color vs. product at the pump.)

Walt 12-11-2013 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Dickens (Post 833499)
My understanding was that AN fittings were to be installed with dry threads...I take it that I am misinformed?

The PIPE threads (and only the pipe threads) must be sealed (I generally use tite-seal). The flares, B nuts etc. go together dry.
Quote:

Originally Posted by catmandu (Post 833500)
OH, MY, GAWD!

Kero in a yellow container? Guvmint man gonna git you! :)

(I've actually had people chastise me about color vs. product at the pump.)

Walmart had them on sale :D

Mark Dickens 12-11-2013 05:40 AM

Sorry for the multiple posts. I kept getting a "database error" and thought the response wasn't posting...

pierre smith 12-11-2013 05:43 AM

Wow!
 
Fuel in the tunnel of a -10 is an explosion waiting to happen.....unfortunately for one gentleman on here, already has.

Best,

rocketbob 12-11-2013 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad (Post 833405)
Hi Walt. Not to hijack the subject but you are a great RV anatomist what's that extra port on stock Vans selector for? Can I plumb aux cabin tank into it?




Vlad is that sealant I see on the B-nuts? If so that's a no-no.

Wayne Gillispie 12-11-2013 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketbob (Post 833508)
Vlad is that sealant I see on the B-nuts? If so that's a no-no.

Well, it does say EZ Turn, making threaded connections easier to turn. Just kidding. One must have thick skin to post pics on the net.

Walt 12-11-2013 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS Flightlines (Post 833432)
Gee Walt----great catch. Thank you for taking pics for everyone to see.
This get serious in a BIG hurry.
Tom

FYI: Tom is making me a full set of FWF teflon firesleeved lines to replace the homade ones, I'm a big believer is letting the pro's do what they do best and Tom is a pro at making lines!

I would suggest everyone do the same unless you have the proper tools/materials/training to do it properly.

Vlad 12-11-2013 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketbob (Post 833508)
Vlad is that sealant I see on the B-nuts? If so that's a no-no.

Thanks RocketBob for looking over it.
It's a bit of EZturn on threads only flares installed dry. Every one hundred hours I inspect fuel lines the only seep was found at a gascolator fitting.

HSANTIBANEZ 12-11-2013 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833399)
I hate when I find this stuff, it's a lot of work to fix :mad:
All this stuff in the tunnel of a 10

Leak at fuel selector



Leak at feedthru from tank L/H side (notice the blue staining on insulation)



Leak at fuel pump 'T'



Making your own FWF hoses? Maximum gap allowed between nut and collar is 1/16" (this one is over a 1/4")



If your flares look like either one of these you've got more work to do!





Quick tutorial on flaring. One of the more important things is lubricating the cone before starting the process, if you don't you will "smear" the metal in the flare.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/s...01/?pg=80#pg80


Dear Walt, did you have fuel smell in the cockpit?

Regards,

sahrens 12-11-2013 08:30 AM

TS Flightlines
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt (Post 833516)
FYI: Tom is making me a full set of FWF teflon firesleeved lines to replace the homade ones, I'm a big believer is letting the pro's do what they do best and Tom is a pro at making lines!

I would suggest everyone do the same unless you have the proper tools/materials/training to do it properly.

This exactly why I went with Tom to fabricate teflon lines for the fuel lines from tank to selector valve and selector valve to fuel pump. More expensive, but after critically reviewing MY flares it was an easy decisiion.

TomVal 12-11-2013 08:41 AM

No carpet on my -12 Fuel Tank...
 
FWIW,

For the purpose of visually monitoring the fuel tank for early signs of weepage I elected not to carpet the tank. Part of my preflight is to eyeball the tank for signs of leaks.

Rupester 12-11-2013 08:56 AM

Although like Walt, I hate to find those kinds of" issues", I'm reminded how fortunate it is that Avgas has such a powerful smell and has blue dye in it. It makes leaks --- even teeny ones - almost self detecting.

Wayne Gillispie 12-11-2013 10:30 AM

And if you are going with hard lines like me, then use 5052 grade with much better fatigue strength(used in certified aircraft).

Tim 8-A 12-11-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSANTIBANEZ (Post 833528)
Dear Walt, did you have fuel smell in the cockpit?

Regards,

I can answer that question, No it did not have any smell of fuel in the cockpit. When I had the Pre-buy, it was noted that the tee below the valve had a blue stain but no visible sigh of a current leak. The other location at the time did not show any signs of a leak. I had assumed that the builder had found a leak and corrected it. I never thought to remove the line and inspect the flare.

Mike S 12-11-2013 11:34 AM

Tim, congrats on the 10 purchase :D

Master Designs 12-11-2013 11:56 AM

Walt will be performing a pre-buy for me today on a 6A and I always knew I wanted Walt to be involved with my next purchase......this thread just reassures that I made the right decision to have Walt do the pre-buy. :D

Steve Melton 12-11-2013 08:10 PM

use 5052 grade hard line
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Gillispie (Post 833569)
And if you are going with hard lines like me, then use 5052 grade with much better fatigue strength(used in certified aircraft).

agree, use 5052 grade


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