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-   -   RV-12 & Frugal Building (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=104657)

NCGAPilot 09-24-2013 08:16 AM

RV-12 & Frugal Building
 
Is it possible to be frugal when building the RV-12? It's a simple question brought about by Van's $65k sticker price for the kit from beginning to end.

Mel 09-24-2013 08:29 AM

You could build as EAB, find a used engine and delete the avionics package, but the way the RV-12 is set up, it would be a LOT of work.
The RV-12 program is really not set up for anything but ELSA.
Typically people build the -12 as EAB because they want something different, not to save money.

NCGAPilot 09-24-2013 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel (Post 810321)
You could build as EAB, find a used engine and delete the avionics package, but the way the RV-12 is set up, it would be a LOT of work.
The RV-12 program is really not set up for anything but ELSA.
Typically people build the -12 as EAB because they want something different, not to save money.

Well I had the idea of using a used Rotax 912ULS and building the panel myself, which would probably save me a chunk of change.

rgmwa 09-24-2013 08:38 AM

Interesting question. Vans say the kit is complete except for fluids and paint, and that is basically true. However you still need to buy a tool kit and compressor, pay for freight, set up a workshop of some kind, pay extra for the optional kits if you decide to install them, pay for primer if you choose to prime, buy replacement parts when you make mistakes, pay for painting unless you like the look of bare aluminium and fibreglass, etc. Realistically, I think for a bare-bones ELSA RV-12 you should allow about 10% extra to build one, and another 10% for a basic professional paint job. Because the -12 is an integrated kit, it's hard to be frugal on the basic kit aircraft from Vans. However, it is certainly possible to save substantial money if you go EAB and buy an alternative engine such as a used Rotax, new Jabiru, Viking etc. and shop around for other items such as avionics and paint it yourself. I'm guessing you may be able to get one flying for around $55k. Others may be able to provide better numbers.

Mel 09-24-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCGAPilot (Post 810324)
Well I had the idea of using a used Rotax 912ULS and building the panel myself, which would probably save me a chunk of change.

You could do that if you build EAB. You would have the task of building the panel and wiring everything, but this is the same as building any other EAB aircraft.
Not sure if you can get the FWF package without the engine. You would have to ask Vans about that.

GhostRider32 09-24-2013 08:43 AM

There are several FWF packages available for the RV-12 that are several thousand dollars cheaper than the Rotax. Viking, Jabiru and ULPower come to mind.

NCGAPilot 09-24-2013 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel (Post 810329)
You could do that if you build EAB. You would have the task of building the panel and wiring everything, but this is the same as building any other EAB aircraft.
Not sure if you can get the FWF package without the engine. You would have to ask Vans about that.

I thought the FWF package was in the Finishing Kit? :confused:

Alschief 09-24-2013 08:50 AM

RV12 Cost
 
We came in about 13K less than the advertised cost going EAB.
We used the UL Power 260iS engine, our own firewall forward, electrical system and yes we have a Skyview system
purchased from Stein with the Skyview Transponder, 2 axes autopilot and ICOM 210 Radio.
That price does not count the painting @ $4K.
We are very please with the result and cost.
It is an excellent kit

NCGAPilot 09-24-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alschief (Post 810336)
We came in about 13K less than the advertised cost going EAB.
We used the UL Power 260iS engine, our own firewall forward, electrical system and yes we have a Skyview system
purchased from Stein with the Skyview Transponder, 2 axes autopilot and ICOM 210 Radio.
That price does not count the painting @ $4K.
We are very please with the result and cost.
It is an excellent kit

Hey, is the FWF kit for the 260iS engine for sale yet? :confused:

txaviator 09-24-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCGAPilot (Post 810333)
I thought the FWF package was in the Finishing Kit? :confused:

No sir. It is a completely stand-alone kit, AFTER you buy the finishing kit.

You get the cowling with the finishing kit, along with an upper engine mount. But the engine itself, along with the many engine parts, FWF wiring harness, and other various pieces are a completely different sub-kit.

rgmwa 09-24-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCGAPilot (Post 810333)
I thought the FWF package was in the Finishing Kit? :confused:

Most of the FWF package is part of the engine kit, which is why that kit is so much more expensive than a basic Rotax engine. If you want to save money, be prepared to do a lot more work yourself.

bobnoffs 09-25-2013 04:57 AM

for a comparison a viking with fwf is about $18g and a gps, grt eis and steam gauges can probably be had for $4g or less. that takes $18g off vans sticker of $64g.
not saying viking is the answer but choices is what homebuilding is all about.

Kram 09-25-2013 05:37 AM

I have done enough research to suggest that Viking engine is an excellent choice if one decides to go EAB. I am going that route in my build.

Skunkworks 09-25-2013 06:20 AM

What happens to the resale value/ability when you do EAB
 
When you go to sell an ELSA RV-12 you have a fully engineered and documented build. The new owner can do his own annual inspection just by attending a 16 hour course. These two items add resale value and probably will expedite resale on the market to a new owner.

Geico266 09-25-2013 07:11 AM

To the OP welcome to the dark side! ;). :D

How about a partner to split the costs? It is a great project for 2 guys to work on togeasther and build it ELSA. Then you don't have to worry about what you designed and built, Van's did it for you.

Just a thought. ;)

It is a great plane to fly and maintain.

rbibb 09-25-2013 07:43 AM

If frugal is what you want, build an RV4...

Richard Bibb

Alschief 09-25-2013 08:36 AM

Firewall Forward UL Power
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCGAPilot (Post 810338)
Hey, is the FWF kit for the 260iS engine for sale yet? :confused:

Yes they do have a fellow selling the installation kits. I am not sure how many have been delivered at this time.


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