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-   -   Rebuild a Tired Old Engine or Buy a New One? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=104433)

mfshook62 09-18-2013 09:28 AM

Rebuild a Tired Old Engine or Buy a New One?
 
Is there a limit on the number of hours or the number of factory overhauls that an engine is capable of before it becomes prudent to buy a new one? I was told that when you send an engine to Lycoming, they pick usable parts out of bins to rebuild your engine. This overhauled engine may or may not have anything out of your old engine.

I have a Lyc O235-L2C with a total time of 10,000 hours on the serial number and original engine plate and with 1700 hours since the second Lycoming overhaul. The engine is leaking oil out of the thru engine cylinder studs and has some ring problems.

So, is it wise to overhaul again or throw in the towel and buy a new or a low hour engine?

AZtailwind 09-18-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfshook62 (Post 808422)
I have an Lyc O235 with total time of 10,000 hours with 1700 hours since the second Lycoming overhaul. The engine is leaking oil out of the thru engine cylinder studs and has some ring problems.

Is it wise to overhaul again or throw in the towel and buy a new or a low hour engine?

10K hours?! I would say throw in the towel- But I wouldn't keep the choices at just "towel or new". You may want to up the HP to an 0320 with a mid time engine...

EagleEngines 09-18-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfshook62 (Post 808422)
Is there a limit on the number of hours or the number of factory overhauls that an engine is capable of before it becomes prudent to buy a new one?

I have an Lyc O235 with total time of 10,000 hours with 1700 hours since the second Lycoming overhaul. The engine is leaking oil out of the thru engine cylinder studs and has some ring problems.

Is it wise to overhaul again or throw in the towel and buy a new or a low hour engine?

There is the option of purchasing a core engine, having it overhauled , and using yours as a core. So you're basically trading cores in a sense. You come out with an overhauled low-time engine that's the same as, if not better, than your old engine.

N941WR 09-18-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZtailwind (Post 808434)
10K hours?! I would say throw in the towel- But I wouldn't keep the choices at just "towel or new". You may want to up the HP to an 0320 with a mid time engine...

That would require him to replace the prop, engine mount, cowling, exhaust, baffles, carb, and a few other "minor" items. Been there, done that and it isn't easy or cheap.

You can rebuild the O-235 but from the sounds of it, you will basically be moving your data plate to a new case with all new parts. In other words, there is no limit to how many hours or overhauls an engine has but at some point the only original part is the data plate.

aparchment 09-18-2013 07:14 PM

Is this correct?
 
It would be great to hear from some of the professional engine guys on this. I thought I heard John or Mahlon say at the Mattituck engine seminar a few years ago that engine overhauls usually require milling the case to ensure a tight sealwhen the halves are rejoined, and this can only be done so many times before the front bearing no longer fits.

I may have misheard though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by N941WR (Post 808451)
That would require him to replace the prop, engine mount, cowling, exhaust, baffles, carb, and a few other "minor" items. Been there, done that and it isn't easy or cheap.

You can rebuild the O-235 but from the sounds of it, you will basically be moving your data plate to a new case with all new parts. In other words, there is no limit to how many hours or overhauls an engine has but at some point the only original part is the data plate.


jrs14855 09-19-2013 12:44 PM

CASE OVERHAUL
 
The issue is usually "deck height". The distance from the case split surface to the cylinder mounting pads. There is a minimum distance for this for certified cases. For experimental a case that is a couple thousands out of limit on deck height can be found for 1/3 to 1/2 of cost of overhauled certified case.
When the case is overhauled the crank and cam bearing bores are rebored so bearing fit is not an issue.

Allen Barrett 09-19-2013 02:46 PM

overhaul vs exchange
 
it does depend on how many times the cases have been repaired and how much has been removed from the mating surface. The biggest issue is fitting the accessory case and sump to the 'thin' crankcase. Threaded holes in the accessory case as well as the 2 alignment pins have to be moved which means helicoils. There are also holes in the bottom of the accessory case that will have to be moved so the sump can be mounted at that location. The holes in the bottom of the cases where the sump bolts protrude will have to be reamed or drilled a tad oversize.

Another problem with high time engines is gear teeth wear. There are wear limits here as well and new gears ain't cheap!

Problem is you just don't know whatcha got til you open er' up!

Allen

EagleEngines 09-20-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen Barrett (Post 808864)

Problem is you just don't know whatcha got til you open er' up!

Allen

+1 on this one

N941WR 09-20-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aparchment (Post 808602)
It would be great to hear from some of the professional engine guys on this. I thought I heard John or Mahlon say at the Mattituck engine seminar a few years ago that engine overhauls usually require milling the case to ensure a tight sealwhen the halves are rejoined, and this can only be done so many times before the front bearing no longer fits.

I may have misheard though.

Yes, there is a limit to how many times the case can be machined but once the case no longer meets the spec, you can replace it. Same goes for the crank, cam, cylinders, etc. The real question is, when is it simply not cost effective to overhaul it?

mfshook62 01-01-2014 03:19 PM

Rebuild or Replace
 
Here is our decision to either replace or rebuild a tired old Lyc O-235-L2C engine. We got quotes from some of the major rebuilders in N Cal and Canada. They were all in the range of $17-18K, and they all depended on the crank, cases, and gears were in a reusable condition. Also, we needed to pack up the old engine and pay for shipment to the rebuilder. A one time new engine purchase thru Vans costs about $25K. Since there were so many uncertainties around rebuilding a tired old engine and it's effect on the planes reliability and future value, we decided to purchase a new O-235-L2C engine. If the old crank or cases did not meet spec, we could have easily spent about the same amount to rebuild as to purchase a brand new engine.

The new engine will add more value, probably will be more reliable, and much easier to sell than with a high time rebuilt engine. We were a little naive when we first purchased a newly completed 9a with a 10,000 hour TT engine, with 3 or 4 rebuilds, and with 900 hours since the last major overhaul. We sure won't make that mistake again. This engine lasted another 800 hours before it needed new rings and developed some severe oil leaks.


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