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i haven't read this whole thread but i would think about getting my medical back and while it is valid transition to light sport.
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Of interesting note here is the penalty I seem to be paying for aggressive attempts at prevention.
The surgery I had years ago was done when I wasn't symptomatic. But I thought it would satisfy the FAA. And here is an example of having that surgery ended up being used against my situation because symptoms came back after I had it. Same thing with the "diuretic therapy" and the Meniett Device. Both are aimed at prevention, but the FAA consultant sees it as an acknowledgement of a problem rather than a progressive action to avoid symptoms. As I've said before, I don't think the FAA made a particular bad call here in denying the medical AT THIS TIME. But as you can see I'm now facing answering for aggressively tackling a situation on a preventive basis. That was a bad mistake on my part. |
We just went through this a few years ago with my dad. He had an INJURY- induced stroke and is no more likely than I am to have another...but the FAA does not seem to see it the same way. However, knowing the battle we faced, he opted to not renew his medical and fly LSA - thus I became the proud owner of a J3 Cub. And he pays for the use of it by teaching me all his bush-flying Cub secrets from the great Northern Frontier. Although he always had flaps and 180 HP to work with. I have 1/3 of that...
With a disease that can ultimately have only one outcome in the eyes of the FAA (and eventually in your ability to safely operate) I do wonder why you didn't let your medical lapse and move to a -12 or similar...? Even if you win this one, every single renewal will be a battle...that's the same line of reasoning that led me to buy the Cub. ...And on what fiery comet in the far reaches of the galaxy have you been living on if you thought for even a second that the FAA is remotely interested in your plight? The FAA has as its mission statement to foster safety throughout the entire range of aviation while simultaneously doing NOTHING that could, in any way, make them look bad, in even the tiniest degree. They will not even consider allowing you a medical until such time as you are a virtually-zero threat, not to yourself or your passenger, but to bad publicity to the FAA. Consider that if you had simply let the medical expire they would have no dispute with you flying - because their name is not on it! Don't get me wrong, the FAA does a LOT of good, but it is primarily DESPITE the FAA Overlords, not because of them. Just consider 337s and field approvals if you want another perfect example of this. |
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As I've said earlier, if I hadn't indicated on the medical form that I was taking a non-banned, no-side-effect medication, I'd be flying. But the real point of failure was the night I was lying in bed, the room was spinning, I thought I might die and I spent time debating whether to call an ambulance, knowing that if I did, I'd probably have to quit flying. Eventually I did. I shouldn't have. |
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Death will ground you faster. There are two bad things that can happen to a pilot, and it's a guarantee that one of them will: 1. You will walk out to your airplane knowing it's the last time you will fly. 2. You will walk out to your airplane NOT knowing it's the last time you will fly. It's hard to say which is worse. |
The system is very much what was contributing to pilots with alcohol problems flying commercial airplanes. Eventually, airlines and the FAA realized that the key was not to punish a pilot for acknowledging a problem and losing a career (here's an interview I did with one of the NWA crew who flew drunk in one of the more famous incidents).
It's worth noting that the FAA was clear when issuing my last medical that IF symptoms returned or IF medication was changed, I was not to fly. When my medication was changed (to add this non-banned diuretic), I grounded myself accordingly and then told the AME that I had grounded myself accordingly. I want to believe that most pilots follow the rules, but I do believe the system is generally designed based on the assumption that they don't or won't. I don't have a solution for that; I obviously don't have any control over those people. But if I never get a medical back, I can at least take comfort that I was safety conscious and professional while I had one. |
I don't know whether this thread will help anyone in the future or not so I apologize for continuing to update it but I figured what the heck.
I talked to the AOPA specialist today, who stresses that she's not a doctor, who says that contrary to the suggestion of the EAA "consultant," the FAA does not have a policy that if the diagnosis of Meniere's is correct, recertification is unlikely. She also said that the paragraph in the letter of denial that offered the option of reconsidering in six months is "significant," that is not just boilerplate copy on all denials. On the issue of using a medical device and approved medication to PREVENT future occurrences, she seemed to stress that that is not really something that gives the FAA any comfort, so there is a penalty to be paid by aggressively moving to prevent that which the FAA is concerned about in the first place. "They are so conservative there," she said, "that they would probably feel much better if you got off the device and medication and remained symptom free for six months." She acknowledged that all of the experts out there who are in the business of trying to tell you what the FAA is thinking on medical issues have one thing in common: They don't really know for certain what the FAA is thinking. "Nobody does," she said. In related news, I looked up Bruce Chien's website yesterday that paying $100 up front and $50 per every 15 minutes of work thereafter is not an expense at this time which has a tremendous upside. More as it happens, but probably not for six months. |
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Sounds like a ray of hope in your last post. We hope it turns into a full, sunny day in a few months. |
Just to put a final stamp on things, my vertigo problems returned last week and I've decided not to pursue any more flying.
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In this case I think you are doing the right thing-----staying safe needs to be your first choice. |
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Somehow I don't think you will go away. I hope not. :) |
+1 on what Don said, Bob. You know I (we) are here for you any time, and if you're ever down in the DFW area I expect a call/visit. br,dr
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Bob, Know that a lot of us see ourselves in you sir and really feel for you situation. I think most of us can see ourselves in a similar situation. Best to you sir and thanks for all your mussing and fussing?s!
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I have always respected - and envied - the openness and honesty in your posts. Whether it was admitting to a build mistake or just asking for advice, your posts have resulted in my learning something valuable 9 of 10 times. For this and a hundred other reasons, you're a much bigger part of this community than you likely realize. I can't adequately find the words to express my empathy for your situation.
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And yet another update:
I've been out of work for three weeks after dizzy spells returned in September. Over that time, the hearing in the left ear has continued to be destroyed. I had a good session with my neurotologist today and while the dizziness has stopped, we've decided to consider a procedure that cuts balance information and all hearing information from that ear. This would eliminate dizziness and also what pitiful amount of hearing is left. My priority right now is being able to work for a living, but there$s also a chance the FAA would look favorably upon this since it eliminates the chance of dizzy spells unless the disease moves to another ear. I'd have to get a special issuance, I presume, because I'd be deaf in one ear. So all hope is not yet lost. |
Ummm
Hang on, so we are hoping you are soon completely deaf in one ear for life. That would be good.... kind of....:confused:
Keep us up to speed, I guess we are all pulling for that to work out so you can FLY. |
Bob, I've been deaf in one ear almost all my life, thanks to mumps I got at nine years old. I'm 57 now. I've been flying since 1981. I passed a SODA checkride many years ago, and now you don't even need that.
Now, how the FAA looks at your situation will probably be different, but if you can get the best help from a senior AME and perhaps AOPA, you might pull this off! I wouldn't sell that plane yet! Quote:
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Bob, I've been away from the forum for a while and just read about your situation. All I can say is WOW. At least it sounds like you have something starting to work in your favor.
I doubt I need to tell you how much help you've been to me (and I suspect most of us) getting into our builds. I'm in my early 60's and in good health, but even your plight is helping me see how to handle medical situations like these. Realistically, it's not if these situations will come, but when. Hang in there, my friend, and keep us posted on your progress. Sending my best wishes and prayers for a speedy treatment and return of your medical certificate. |
Catching up reading here
I just read this thread from the beginning. Wow! So many thoughts come to mind. I have had my battles with OKC AME's and know very well how things can quickly change in the eyes if OKC Aeromedical.
I would keep pushing, but also consider a spouse pilot option as mentioned earlier. I know it's a lot to ask of your wife, but hey she married you, watched/helped in your build, not to mention was likely your best friend over the years....maybe. I know that life is such an awesome amazing gift, and every day I am on this planet is a great day, pilot or otherwise. I wish you success here. I pushed in my case and with persistence and luck I am still flying. |
And even more updates:
A gentleman was kind enough to send me an FAA medical examiner bulletin from 2007, detailing the woes of an airline captain with Meniere's. He eventually got it back after an injection of gentamicin, a substance that is toxic to the little hairs in your ear that wave around and, thus, send signals to your brain regarding which way is up. It kills them, and is an alternative to a more radical surgery -- a labrythinthectomy, which takes all of your hearing and balance nerves with it. "I've been thinking about that for you," my neurotologist said to me when I emailed it to him last month, and I followed up today for a love conversation (my nursing-student son in tow) to evaluate the next course of action. There's not a lot of hearing left in the ear, but I still would like to keep what little is still there. It's possible the Meniere's has completely burned itself out in that ear, but we don't know that and while this is not a guarantee there'll be no future episodes, it's a pretty good bet as a next step. So we scheduled a procedure for December 4th. I've been doing physical therapy for the last three weeks to begin training the remaining ear (and eyes and other parts) to compensate. The recovery time is a few weeks, and then it takes about four months for everything to return to normal. That starts the clock on what I presume will be a six-month period that the FAA will want without any symptoms. So, bottom line, this seems like the best course of action now and one that the FAA may very well look favorably upon. I'll probably miss Oshkosh 2014, but I'm still hoping to fly to Cleveland for a game before the end of the season. One other thing. I met Daniel Alvarez last year in Minneapolis, at the beginning of his kayak trek to Key West. he arrived there after 7 months down the Mississippi and Gulf. Then he decided to paddle back by way of the Atlantic Ocean, Hudson River and down via the Quetico to International Falls and Minnesota's Northwest Angle. He arrived there a week or so ago. When I last visited with him in person, I told him I was a little nervous about flying to New England. "If you're not nervous," he said, "you're not dreaming big enough." I've remembered that all this time. Though we've been communicating, and while he was giving me grief for not flying, he was unaware of the reasons for it until I sent him this thread. He sent this picture back after reading it: ![]() I'm guessing you've heard more than enough "I'm so sorrys" and "keep your head ups" for a lifetime by now, but I thought I'd send you a picture from the Appalachian Trail. This is from the day before I finished the trail. I was walking with my friend and we see this guy walking toward us. Suddenly, we realize he has one leg and is on crutches. He's hiking the Appalachian Trail too. I'd actually seen him before at a trail event and he had an artificial leg. It was super technical looking and had sponsor's stickers all over it, but he didn't have it with him when we saw him on the trail. I asked him about it and he told us it had bruised his stump, so he had to ditch it for a bit to let the stump heal. He got a pair of crutches so he could keep hiking. He was going southbound into a section of the trail that is fairly remote and called the "hundred mile wilderness." I'll never forget seeing him walk away on those crutches, finding a way to keep going. Maybe you can find a way to keep going too. Maybe it means fighting like **** to get that medical clearance. Maybe it means switching to powered gliders or whatever you are able to fly. Maybe it means getting a co-pilot (I wish I could fly, I'd be there in a heart beat!). Maybe it means forgetting about flying and dreaming of something else. Who knows, but whatever it is, I'm cheering for you and if there is anything I can do to help--even if you just need to call someone up and yell at the phone--you know how to reach me. The picture is now in my hangar. I don't yet know how any of this will turn out, but it's all a metaphor for building a plane anyway. You should read all about Daniel's journey here; it'll sound familiar. |
Yep, Bob, every day is a new day, so never say never. Sounds like you've got a good plan.
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Great Story!
One thing's for sure: it's sometimes tragic and it's sometimes magic, but life (at least a life worth living) is always a great story! Keep on dreamin' Bob... It teaches those who've never learned, or have forgotten how.
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.......But I had a good life, all the way.....
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Message left....:cool:
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Press on Bob!
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All of us here will have our fingers crossed for you over the next months. If it all plays out as we would like, just THINK of the celebration we could have at OSH next year !!!! :D
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Bob---may I respectfully request that you change the heading to read--A new Beginning-- !
Tom |
Lurking but had to say something
Hi Bob, I have been following your plight with a little bit of "so sorry but thank god its not me" attitude. Today when I checked in I was so very impressed, and more importantly, encouraged by your attitude and determination. Please keep pushing to get back into the sky, you are acting as a trail blazer for many of us who have those same "FAA fears".
Z |
Never say never.
My hopes are with you, Bob. |
I had the gentamicin procedure 10 days ago. So far. So good. That is to say, the brain did not like having balance nerves in one ear killed off. After 5 days, I had a vicious vertigo attack. The neurotologist assured me this is normal and will subside as the brain, eyes, joints, and remaining good ear learn to compensate. And, indeed, I am feeling better and going back to work after a couple of weeks off.
So, in effect, I've reset the 6.month clock for seeking special issuance and feel pretty good about things. Hearing in the bad ear is gone for good, though. I'm going to need a good ANR headset. The plane goes to the paint shop on April 15th so we're keeping hope alive for now. |
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Please share the paint scheme Bob. I hope I didn't miss anything. |
excellent!
Glad to hear the medical report. There's a ton of us out here pulling for you!
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Bob, I'm glad you continue to soldier on and have not given up hope!
As for paint, Vlad only asked because he's not completely sure what "paint" really is. The rest of us are interested in the paint scheme as further inspiration ! |
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Neat idea. There is an RV in Finland carrying those green lines on polished aluminum looks great. |
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I admire you for your commitment to getting your medical back and as one who's been half deaf most of his life and a pilot for some 30-odd years, it's not a big deal...yes, get a good ANR headset and you will be great! I can't wait to hear (so to speak) that you're back in the air! You deserve it! |
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