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-   -   Elevator stiffener riveting - back-rivet never worked right. (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=104130)

bret 09-10-2013 07:48 AM

are you holding the sliding guide with your other hand? I did this to keep it on the the rivet better.

rzbill 09-10-2013 08:12 AM

Good point Bret.
I think that goes for all sets, if you have that extra hand available via the use of a back rivet plate or a helper on the bucking bar.

wirejock 09-10-2013 08:19 AM

skin stiffeners
 
I used a backing plate with the back rivet set ground flat on one side to clear the flange.
I suspect that may be the issue. The back rivet set is pressing against the flange causing the shop head to go to one side.

rvbuilder2002 09-10-2013 10:44 AM

Did you use the recommended rivets (3-3's)?
 
A lot of builders use 3-3.5's because based on a rivet length gauge, the 3-3's look a little short.
The 3-3's are fine. There is a big difference in riveting difficulty if you switch to teh slightly longer rivet.

tegwilym 09-10-2013 04:10 PM

I have all my stiffeners in place and riveted. Today I riveted in the trim tab back plate. I tried again with the back riveting on this part. I held it straight, plastic ring down flat on the piece, held it with my other hand, and -gently- tapped the rivets in with light squeezes.
I tried three times and they all sucked!

Bucking bar in left hand, riveter with rubber "mushroom" in right hand. 20 minutes later they are all in nice and straight, none had to be removed either. The back plate just hates me I think.

Tom

BobTurner 09-10-2013 04:58 PM

You don't want to be too gentle with the gun, or you risk work-hardening the rivet before it's set. Maybe a long second or two, no more.

As others have said, most find back-riveting to be an easier way (than mushroom-bucking bar) to get satisfactory results. Take a good look at your back rivet set. Something just isn't right.

DaAV8R 09-10-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krw5927 (Post 805975)
I had the same problem with my first back-rivet set. I got it at the Yard Store because I live close to it. In search of a solution to the problem I eventually bought the Avery back-rivet set. Problem gone.

Listen to Kurt. Where did you get your backrivet set? I also started with a set from the Yard, thinking I didn't need an expensive tool for this task and for some strange reason it wanted to tip the rivets. While back riveting seems like a no brainer, I have also struggled at times with it. A few weeks back I was talking to another local builder, a respected machinist, and he confessed he had also struggled with this at times.

The only backrivet set I own that provides consistent, good results is the set from Avery. It gives me a perfect rivet every time. Borrow another set and give it a try.

tegwilym 09-11-2013 04:14 PM

My back rivet set was from Cleveland tools. This one - http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Back-R.../#.UjDqHSJDvSw



Like I mentioned, I did the whole rudder just fine, but the elevator absolutely refused to go straight. I tried several ways, straight, long/short burst, and it never went in right. I screwed up a few holes removing the bent rivet and enlarged them for the next size up to fit snugly and use that as a fix. Finally gave up and used the red rubber thing.

I'm just hoping I didn't mess anything up doing it that way, but it would have been more screwed up if I kept going the way I was. :(

Tom

tegwilym 09-13-2013 07:30 PM

I looked at an RV6 down at the airport yesterday and examined his elevator. It looked very flat. Mine looks like cr@p compared to that one!

here is about the worst of the rivets. I did do the elevator trailing edge bend and that went well, but then staring at this, I'm just getting more disgusted with how it looks. Maybe I'll replace the skin and stiffeners before going farther. Grrrr...!
Hey, the good thing is, I'll have plenty of scrap to practice backriveting on so I don't mess up the real thing! :rolleyes:


longranger 09-14-2013 12:56 AM

Tom,

I had a problem just about like that on a previous project. As it turned out, my bench top wasn't stiff enough to react the blows of the gun, and the rivet heads ended up slightly proud, just enough to catch with your fingernail. I solved the problem by moving my backing plate and plywood with the cutout down to the concrete floor. You'll need knee pads or a cushion to kneel on but the results will be worth it.


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