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Right on!
I'm with Dan!
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Mel - I am sorry for the imprecision of my comment.
Clarify - I can make many mods to an ELSA but depending on their nature, the original airworthiness certificate would become invalid. That would necessitate a NEW airworthiness certificate be obtained, which would then be an EAB. Correct? Please list a few modifications that would, and would not, invalidate an already obtained ELSA airworthiness certificate. 1. Installation of a CS prop would be one, apparently, that would. 2. Installation of an in-flight-adjustable-pitch prop (a different animal than a CS prop) would be another, apparently, that would. 3. Installation of a non-in-flight-but-still-"easily"-adjustable-pitch prop (think electric) would not be, nor would installation of any non-original ground-adjustable prop. (Like the Sensenich 3-blade for ROTAX) More examples please! Then, more complexly, if I were to change out the ROTAX on a proper, licensed, registered, ELSA aircraft to a Jabiru, (I do not intend this), something (what?) would trigger the Phase 1 process again(?), but would it still be a "Van's RV12" on the registration - even though Vans never built such an animal? Does it become an EAB "somehow?" Curious things, these regs... |
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So let me confirm this. An ELSA can be changed to a EAB, but because how the changes are made a EAB can never be re-certified back as a ELSA.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread from the op. But, I had these questions in my mind for a long time. Thanks! |
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Once an ELSA....always an ELSA. And if an ELSA is ever modified to where it doesn't comply with LSA regs, it becomes a very expensive lawn ornament. |
An E-LSA is inspected for and certified that the builder followed the designer's astm approved plans, acceptance procedures, and used the specified materials.
An E-AB is inspected for? The builder can do what they like within wide margins. Maybe the builder does know better than the designer, maybe not? If you do not know the builder which would you prefer to buy? In any event, the market place will ultimately decide regardless of what we may think. I wonder what other builders have decided. Thanks Van's for doing the extra work and taking on the added responsibility to offer the RV-12 as an E-LSA. Just sayin, Dave |
Now this just gets into theory..
Take parts from a wrecked Cessna, Piper, and Mooney. Cobble them together as a Frankenbird. If you can get an FAA or DAR airworthiness sign off, that can be an EAB, right? Cannot an airplane's airworthiness certificate be abandoned, thus turning it into parts? Then you take the parts ex-RV-12 (nameplate removed), add an IO-540, and you have a Rocket12, which you can (try to!) get an EAB certification. Emphasis on the "E!" right? But seriously though, is there anything else that is "practical" other than an inflightadjustable prop, that would void the ELSA AW cert. on an RV12? (And thus reg-wise turn it into parts.) I can't come up with anything except a substantially more powerful engine. Just an intellectual exercise. Kram, I think you are confusing ELSA. You cant easily CONVERT an ELSA to an EAB (except maybe via the "parts route!") You can initially BUILD an ELSA as an EAB instead, and some do. Very different thing! And most of those folks (maybe all???) are building it as an EAB LSA. None of the common mods discussed take the RV12 out of the 1320GW 120kt 2-passenger etc. parameters of the LSA category. The main reasons people build EAB RV12s (in the USA) seem to be to initially use different engines (either non-Rotax or a used Rotax they happen to have) or avionics than the Vans plans call for. In one case, maybe to have wing fuel tanks. No one (Yet) has tried to do a taildragging slider canopy version (I WISH!) of the 12 as an EAB LSA. |
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A registered ELSA could be constructed in such a manner as to be considered junk by the informed builder....just as can be the case with an E-AB aircraft. An ELSA registration doesn't guarantee an aircraft will be one I would want to own. I still think the market will value good craftsmanship much more than whether or not the RV-12 is ELSA or E-AB. |
In general a BUILDER does not like being told what they can do, and E-AB has appeal.
Also in general, a BUYER may in fact like the idea that the builder was forced to follow the plans and use specified materials, and was inspected for same. Here E-LSA has appeal. After purchase freedoms, as previously noted, are about the same for E-AB & E-LSA, if the aircraft is to remain LSA eligible. In fact a individual that buys a E-LSA has more authority (with a two day course) than a purchaser of an E-AB (condition inspection authority). Again here E-LSA has appeal. Builder or buyer makes all the difference. But, most of use will eventually be sellers. -Dave |
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