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I am just about to fit the VANS warning kit. I am wiring it up to my Skyview rather than the supplied relays and warning lights.
The system uses steel billets bonded into the ends of the pins. With the door closed, you adjust the magnetic sensor closer until it just activates. There are sensors on the fore and aft pins in series so both need to be made to indicate safe. If the pin is not extended or outside the frame, then it will be too far from the magnetic sensor to activate it. To me it seems pretty foolproof. So much so that the UK authorities have not mandated the extra door lock SB. It also strikes me that the stock door seal would make it difficult to detect a partially closed door. The automotive style bulb seal fitted to the frame should show a clearly visible gap with a pin outside the frame. |
My post is not intended to be critical of the OP, but there has to been something wrong with the planearound 180 kit installed from the door to come off. If the planearound kit is installed properly, it isn't apparent to me how the door could have come off. One of the pins had to be outside the cabin cover.
The 180 kit would have extended door pins longer than plan. If they were in their holes properly it would take some really significant flexing to pull the pins out. I'm not sure it's possible, unless somebody didn't fully close the door. This is going to get the attention of a lot of folks to understand what actually happened. To the OP, give Jay Pratt a call at rvcentral. If he doesn't want to do the work, I'm sure he can recommend somebody that will. |
I think it's important to find out what caused this incident. I would suggest that the OP post some photos of the door latch mechanism in the engaged position, and examine the engagement length of the pins. If there is any way to reattach the door and verify pin angagement in the frame, that also would be useful information. I can see how lack of engagement of the rear pin could allow the door to open and slide rearward, thus allowing the forward pin to also disengage. I too find it hard to imagine how, with the plane around latch, the door was not totally engaged. Is it possible the aftermarket "bullet" pins unscrewed from the tubing?
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2nd on Jay Pratt.
He has fixed a few of the doors. He might be North bound to Badlands flyin though. On site. RV central |
I'm not Jay, but I spoke to him last night. Correct, he's hooking them up to the Badlands event in SD at the end of this coming week.
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I think I met the OP at Walt's a few months back you were having one of your radio's looked at. I took interest in your door latch install because I had planned to do the same, I believe I have pictures of your install if you need them.
I wish I could have gotten inside to test the door but ya'll were engrossed with the radio issues. The install appeared to be correct from the short time I spent looking at it. If I remember your story of why you added the 180 kit, is because you had latched your door and the rear pin didn't engage and the door opened on rollout. I wonder if you have a problem with the door being undersized? Or is it possible that you overlooked checking if the rear pin engaged on this departure? During my preflight check one of my check list items are to physically touch all four comers of the doors. I'm not a builder but anything I can do to help just let me know. Tim |
So sorry to hear of your incident. It must have really gotten your attention. Hope I never experience something like that.
On our RV-10 with the 180 kit , if the door is closed enough for the center latch to catch, it pulls in the door in before the pins pass thru the holes (as per the instructions). Once the center latch catches, you would have to push out on the back of the door in order for the pin to go outside the skin. If something were to fall and get in between the door and it's sil, it could push it out. So you have to check the lights every time. I'm wandering if the latch system was installed correctly. The new owner might not know (OP) how they are intended to work. No disrespect to either the builder or the new owner. When we sold our RV-10, I made sure to go over the door latching system and explain in detail how they were constructed and how they work. What to look for , what to check and a stern warning on what would result if care is not taken to ensure everything is not in order. We have the indicating light on the Skyview also. With the doors working as "perfect" in my description, I still would make sure I closed the passenger side door unless it was one of the build partners sitting there or the new owner after thorough instruction. We had 19 hrs of flying the RV to it's new home and the new owner had to learn the operation of the doors along with every thing else. |
I agree with those who have said a properly installed planearound kit will not disengage if the pins are seated. Is there more going on with this door, and pehaps its mate? It seems strange to me that the outer skin would delaminate from the hinge down to the lower window level, unless it was improperly bonded to the inner shell. And by extension, are the door halves below the window inadequately bonded? Others have reported difficulty getting the lower door skins bonded due to inadequate resin in the mat( I forget the name of that stuff).
Jim Berry RV-10 |
I'll go a little farther. On my latch install, I deliberately tested with one pin outside the structure (tests for both fore and aft pin mis-engaged). I could close the latching mechanism but it took deliberate force to keep the door twisted out of line. With the door out of line, it was not possible by main strength to move the door toward the dis-engaged pin - it simply would not budge more than a 1/4" forward/aft. I could pull the unlatched side away from the fuselage only about an inch or so; I think I could see having the forward side open causing enough oscillation that a door separates but the other side might stay with you. On the other hand, if the pin is holding the front side of the door open, it seems there should be enough air coming in to notice even at run-up (I should say that I don't have an engine yet, so this is speculation). My pins fully protrude into the aluminum structure but even if they didn't, if the nylon guides are still on the fuselage I don't see how this could have happened as described. Since I am speculating, I apologize in advance if I have overlooked something.
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My thoughts and from 850 hours on type.
1. Build the door stiffer, ours can't be flexed that much, not with the length of our pins and the ALUMINIUM blocks (not nylon). We fitted Hendricks door systems and that may have made them more rigid? 2. Fit the sensors so that they are in series and only just close contacts when the door is fully latched. 3. Close the PAX door on every flight yourself, no matter who is in the RHS. No exceptions. Do not accept anything less. |
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