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-   -   Moeller Fuel Gauge Now Standard Equipment (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=103199)

Mitch757 08-16-2013 04:35 AM

Moeller Fuel Gauge Now Standard Equipment
 
To my surprise as I unpacked for inventory my finishing kit, I discovered a "mechanical fuel gauge", P/N IE00001, with the fuel tank parts. The tank top was already pre-punched for the unit. Thanks Vans!

Mitch
RV12 $low build..

Dave12 08-16-2013 05:05 AM

Does the tank still have the perforated sight gauge on the side?

rgmwa 08-16-2013 05:15 AM

Hope they didn't deviate from the approved JB drawing. ;)

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...56&postcount=5

f1rocket 08-16-2013 06:23 AM

Interesting. I am working on my fuel tank right now and it did not come with the mechanical fuel gauge. Rather it has a fuel level sender built into the side of the tank I presume to send fuel level to the Dynon.

And yes, it still has the sight glass installed.

Wonder if this is some sort of option or something. When did you order your finish kit? Mine was shipped in June.

JBPILOT 08-16-2013 06:51 AM

WHOOOOOOW !
 
That is good news. Post a picture of the top and the sender if you will please. Is the "window" closed ?

Geico266 08-16-2013 07:13 AM

Great news! Thank you Marty & John for being the first! Mine is installed and bullet proof!!

Geico266 08-16-2013 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgmwa (Post 798394)
Hope they didn't deviate from the approved JB drawing. ;)

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...56&postcount=5

Man, that brought back memories! I think John used crayons. ;)

Mitch757 08-16-2013 08:21 AM

Moeller Fuel Gauge Info
 
I ordered my finish kit a couple months ago and it arrived yesterday, 8/15/13. The location of the gauge is very close to JB's....6" aft of forward edge and 7" in from left edge of tank.

Additionally, the original sight gauge was there but had been covered with aluminum plate on the inside and sealed with proseal.

I can forward photos to anyone wishing to have a look, but can't seem to add them to this post.

Mitch Garner

rgmwa 08-16-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch757 (Post 798447)
The location of the gauge is very close to JB's....6" aft of forward edge and 7" in from left edge of tank.
Mitch Garner

Nice round figures, and just different enough to avoid having to pay JB royalties for copying his design. :D

LittleJoeA 08-16-2013 08:53 AM

That's good news. I hope Van's will produce a kit or at least a list of parts to order for those of us who have an older kit but have not assembled the tank yet.

XOverZero 08-16-2013 09:24 AM

That was easy
 
Just deleted one item from my "Modifications After Certification" list. Thank you Van's Aircraft, Inc.:)

Gagarin737 08-16-2013 10:05 AM

Pictures received from Mitch
 











JBPILOT 08-16-2013 10:30 AM

N I C E ! ! ! !
 
Like the window "sealing ". I use mine mostly for filling. Takes a bit to get used to, but works great. Glad it has been adopted.

E. D. Eliot 08-16-2013 10:51 AM

Great news!
 
This is another example of Van's listening to the customers and responding to the desire of many kit builders to improve an already outstanding product (RV-12). Thanks to all of the decision makers at Van's. I appreciate this very much.:cool:

Geico266 08-16-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. D. Eliot (Post 798503)
This is another example of Van's listening to the customers and responding to the desire of many kit builders to improve an already outstanding product (RV-12). Thanks to all of the decision makers at Van's. I appreciate this very much.:cool:

+1

:D

It is a great mod. Now if we can get them to adopt the Bender Baffel for cold country oops. ;)

RFSchaller 08-16-2013 11:56 AM

Looks like a huge improvement over the sight glass. I use a length of nylon instrument line to sound the tank during preflight. I marked it during calibration of the Dynon unit. Works great, and it's always best to have an actual fuel level determination not subject to mechanical failure (e.g. float linkage sticking).

bhassel 08-16-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geico266 (Post 798511)
+1

It is a great mod. Now if we can get them to adopt the Bender Baffel for cold country oops. ;)

And the rivet based AOA (or other solution)! Then there'd be no major mods but parking brake and the stab tips!

Bob
:D

JBPILOT 08-16-2013 01:54 PM

THANKS LARRY ! ! ! !
 
For cold weather the Reiff Pre-Heat and Thermostasis Oil therm and Heater Damper Door makes it a good cold weather plane. ( and you can have your crayons back anytime ! ! ha ha ha )

skydiverlv 08-16-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhassel (Post 798533)
Then there'd be no major mods but parking brake and the stab tips!

Bob
:D

You forgot the split rear bulkhead for tail area access!

lewy 08-16-2013 02:30 PM

Fuel gauge
 
Hi guys, have a question, how did you cut the hole to install the fuel gauge. What method is used to cut the hole out without causing an explosion, our tank has been used for a year and we are going to install the float gauge during the condition inspection and I guess we will order it from Vans, I have heard there is a retro kit on the way and maybe a seal kit for the canopy? Don

MacPara 08-16-2013 03:47 PM

The pictures look great!
I'm just surprised that there is still no revision to the section 37 instructions on the Van's website. I am heading towards certification and could put the gauge in before that...

engineerofsorts 08-16-2013 04:16 PM

Wondering about the "official" installation method myself
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MacPara (Post 798593)
The pictures look great!
I'm just surprised that there is still no revision to the section 37 instructions on the Van's website. I am heading towards certification and could put the gauge in before that...

I did a homebrew installation per the crayola instructions, using a .060" backing plate with nutplates as I recall--from the photos, it doesn't appear that it is pre-drilled for nutplates. I'm wondering what the mounting scheme will be.

MLock 08-16-2013 06:16 PM

A retrofit kit will be available. I installed my Moeler gauge with it.

Geico266 08-16-2013 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLock (Post 798625)
A retrofit kit will be available. I installed my Moeler gauge with it.

Bout **** time! ;)

Only took 5 years of convincing! :rolleyes:

JBPILOT 08-16-2013 08:13 PM

DON LEWIS - -
 
to answer your question, I drained the tank, then run an air hose inside for 10 minutes blasting lots of air in. I then removed the top to do it. Likely could be done by removing the present fuel sender large plate on front, and cutiing the hole. Just have to clean up chips well before putting back together. I'm guessing the retro kit will have you do it that way. Remember, lots of air will dry it out.

Bill_H 08-16-2013 09:30 PM

Hmmmm - as a retrofit you can take off the sender plate. Reaching inside you could hold a flat block of hardwood up against the top and drill into it using a hole saw. (Precut the pilot hole.) That would make a clean hole cut without a lot of chips getting in. If the hole saw size is not right, cut slightly small and enlarge with a dremel sanding cylinder. For drilling the nut plate holes you can then reach inside with a hand towel with tape around the perimeter and attach it so that the towel catches any falling chips.

Tony_T 08-16-2013 09:55 PM

Retrofit
 
Order a new T-1209 Res Sender Plate from Van's. This is the tank front cover plate. It has the same hole and nutplate riveting as the Moeller gauge and you can trim the T-1209 to act as the backing plate for the Moeller gauge.
Locate the Bender drawing and use a plastic cup to duct tape to the underside of the tank top to catch the chips (thanks, Hal, for this idea).


Use the backing plate made from the T-1209 as a template to match drill the screw holes and mark the hole for the gauge:


Then cut the hole using the big HF step drill and enlarge it slightly to fit the gauge, the cup catches the chips but clean the tank throughly anyway:


Fit the backing plate and gauge, I did not use the gasket but sealed the Moeller in with proseal just as the plans show for fitting the Res Sender on the front cover:


Clean everything up and reinstall the front cover (use outside star washers on the screws) and job done.


Of course, you can wait for the retrofit kit as Mitch says he used.
Tony

Gagarin737 08-17-2013 12:36 AM

Nice writeup Tony!

Received another picture from Mitch:


LittleJoeA 08-17-2013 02:42 AM

Note that the date on the drawing is 04/16/13 for revision 5. It is not yet listed on the Van's list of revisions. Well I have been putting off building the fuel tank, I guess for good reason.

lewy 08-17-2013 10:13 AM

Gauge
 
Thanks for the information, this will be a nice upgrade.

Dave12 08-17-2013 06:01 PM

Any electricians out there know if there is a knock-out cutter that will work to make this hole?

todehnal 08-18-2013 05:15 AM

Using Plate Nuts
 
I like Tony T's mod a lot better. Looks like he used nut plates, rather than just washers and nuts. Makes it easy to R&R without pulling, or opening up the tank.......Tom

rgmwa 08-18-2013 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todehnal (Post 798938)
I like Tony T's mod a lot better. Looks like he used nut plates, rather than just washers and nuts. Makes it easy to R&R without pulling, or opening up the tank.......Tom

I did the same.

MacPara 08-18-2013 09:19 AM

Nutplates sure would be better, but I am also surprised that there is no backplate and they did not mention ProSeal for the installation either. The top skin is pretty thin and taking the extra forces from the gauge I would have sworn Van's would put in a backplate.

E. D. Eliot 08-18-2013 08:48 PM

Hope that
 
By the time that I get there, the 'old' sender plate and the fuel level viewing holes have been removed from the kit fuel tank sides.

I'm not an aero engineer but a doubler inside of the top of the tank by the new fuel gauge is a great idea and is called for in my opinion. So, make one and install it before first flight and after the DAR signs off your new aircraft. No problem! :cool:

f1rocket 08-20-2013 08:35 AM

Someone help me out because I'm not putting one and one together. Why is this gauge needed and why is it desirable? I'm not seeing it.

I assume (because I don't have the avionics yet) that the Dynon has both a fuel level indicator and a fuel totalizer function. So I fill the tank, reset the totalizer, and visually confirm in the site glass the fuel level.

The other RV's don't have a mechanical gauge, why do we need/want one in the -12? Thanks.

DonFromTX 08-20-2013 08:50 AM

My main reason for adding it was to be able to see the fuel level when filling the tank, and know when it is getting near the top. You can see it thru the rear window.
While flying you can see it over your shoulder and it provides a redundant reading to the Skyview level.

Jetguy 08-20-2013 08:51 AM

Quote:

I assume (because I don't have the avionics yet) that the Dynon has both a fuel level indicator and a fuel totalizer function. So I fill the tank, reset the totalizer, and visually confirm in the site glass the fuel level.
In the beginning the site gauge sounded like a good idea. But in actual use it doesn't work very well. Sitting in the pilot seat looking over your shoulder you can not see where the fuel level would be especially if you run premium auto fuel which is clear.:confused: Even 100LL is hard to see. However the moeller fuel gauge is very easy to see.:D
Advantages of moeller gauge on stock RV12 setup.
1. If Skyview goes black simply check moeller gauge for fuel quantity in flight.
2. When fueling airplane to full tank watch moeller gauge through rear window to know when approaching full so not to over flow on to rear window.:(
3. When heading out for quick fun flight provides instant verification of fuel quantity.
4. Now that RV12 pilots have provided endless feed back to Van's they have come full circle and have eliminated the site gauge and provide the moeller gauge with their standard kit.;)

rvbuilder2002 08-20-2013 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetguy (Post 799599)
In the beginning the site gauge sounded like a good idea. But in actual use it doesn't work very well. Sitting in the pilot seat looking over your shoulder you can not see where the fuel level would be especially if you run premium auto fuel which is clear.:confused: Even 100LL is hard to see. However the moeller fuel gauge is very easy to see.

After all this time, I guess a lot of people still don't have an understanding of what the sight gauge was originally designed for.

When doing a pre-flight on any aircraft, it is standard practice to visually confirm the fuel level and compare it to the fuel gauge reading. That is all the sight gauge was intended for.

We fly other aircraft without having a second fuel gauge to look at. Not being able to view the original in flight should not be considered a negative point.

The Moeller gauge has now been added as standard because it is helpful during fueling if you only want to partially fill the tank, and to provide warning when you are getting near full. And because customers said they wanted it.

In actuality, during the original design process, I searched for a mechanical gauge but for some reason at that time, I never found the availability of one that would work with the tank size we have. Fortunately someone else did (John B?).

NASA515 08-20-2013 11:17 AM

I like the Moeller gage, and consider it a useful aid during the fueling process ---- BUT, ---- not enough to drain the tank, remove it, open it up, and go through the cutting, drilling, sealing, pressure testing, reinstallation process.

After running an estimated 325 gallons of fuel through N737G, I just don't think it's any big deal. If my wife is around, she gives me a heads-up on the quantity. When I'm by myself - like yesterday - I've got the whole process pretty much down pat, and can run it right up to almost full without any problem, and then squeeze in the little extra to top it off (which the auto gas stations tell you not to do) by just listening at the filler port. I've got the gurgle sound figured out too.

I'm dubious as to the value of checking in-flight. If you have a quantity problem, and it's not going through the engine, then there must be a big leak somewhere. With the tank right behind you, and the lines right under you, I'm a thinking there would be something to tip you off if that was the case.

I DO lament the loss of the sight glass holes however. I have no problem seeing the fuel level - if you do, just shake the airplane a little and you can see the level bounce around.

I agree with Scott, however (you see Scott - we DO agree sometimes....), I firmly believe in visually confirming the fuel level on any airplane - be it a Cessna 172, or a Cherokee, or the thousands of Boeings I've fueled over many years. There have been more than enough fuel exhaustion accidents due to gauging errors, to have made me a believer, and tolerate the doggone fuel running down my arm from a dripstick. Yuk!

Without the sight glass holes, you're totally dependent on two invisible systems - a mechanical gage and a computerized one, both vulnerable to errors - a much less robust system. I like to SEE the gas. Like the movie line "Show me the money" - for me, it's "Show me the gas."

Bob Bogash
N737G


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