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-   -   How do get these "SUCKERS" to slow down fast? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=10195)

Bryan Wood 08-20-2006 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Wood
I'm having a brain lapse right now, but I think Van bumped it up for the 9's by 10 mph over the markings on the airspeed indicator for "Partial Flaps" only. Not certain without looking at the airspeed indicator, but I'm pretty sure 80mph for full flaps, and 90mph for partial.


Yeap, the brain lapse was exactly that. The speeds for the 9/9A are 90mph for full flaps, or 100mph for partial. As soon as I sat in the plane yesterday to go for a ride and saw the airspeed indicator, well DOH!

A technique that is used frequently in retracts to slow down is to come in below the pattern altitude if the terrain permits and climb as the power is coming off to slow down.( The gear would also be coming down during this) On the 45 turn to down wind along with a climb of 150' or so after powering back does a lot to help slow down.


Cheers,

gmcjetpilot 08-20-2006 10:58 PM

Can't Go Down and Slow Down
 
Reading all the previous sounds like good advice. As far as slips that should not be needed for normal approach and landings. As long as you have a safe flying speed, V "ref" or Vs1 (clean) + 30% you are OK, you'll not stall in a full slip. Let's say 78 mph Of course you stall in a full forward slip you will snap roll. However you are better off slowing down and getting full flaps out.
-Plan ahead, as you're doing (no more then Vfe at mid field at pattern altitude)
-Once you are descending it is hard to slow down and go down clean.
-Don't start decent from pattern altitude until you have at about 1/2 or more flaps.
-Don't descend until you have some flaps out
-Again extend flaps, partial or full, before leaving pattern altitude
-Again once descending it is hard to slow clean, level flight not so hard.
-Get some training is good and or practice slow flight and flying at Vfe.
-Too fast on down wind? consider a shallow *climb* to get to Vfe, extend flaps, go back to pattern altitude.
It does not take much *climb* to bleed speed at or near idle; sometimes it's hard to bleed that last 10 mph to get to flap extension, so a little back pressure is needed. I am not talking about a large change in altitude, only 50 feet, but traffic and airspace conditions rules. Once you get the flaps out lower nose and get back to pattern.

I suppose you could slip in level flight on the "45" or downwind to bleed speed, as an alternate to a slight climb as I suggested. Slips are not real comfortable for passengers and should not be a normal procedure with proper planning. With proper planning you should not need to do either.

The trick is know what the RPM or manifold pressure is (if so equipped) to give you Vfe in level flight. Set that power before entering the pattern so have time to slow to Vfe or less by the abeam point. Also figure out how many miles it takes to slow from cruise to Vfe by pulling power back in level flight. It may take a few miles! So plan ahead. Any descent, all bets are off on slowing down. You need to slow first, get the flaps out second and than descend. Again the slight climb is a good trick, I use it on occasion. I would rather climb slightly than slip or bring flaps out above their limit speed.

Once you have the flaps out and leaving power alone, you will slow further towards approach speed. Once you leave pattern altitude (base/final) add more flaps as needed to maintain speed and continue to slow. If you find you are a little high and fast you can slip, but if is screwed up go around and try again. Plan on being on final, on speed in position to land by 200 feet above touch down.

N941WR 08-21-2006 06:05 AM

When landing, just remember:

Pitch for speed
Power for placement (distance)

It does sound like you are having fun. So... Do you miss building? ;)

dan 08-21-2006 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot
It does not take much *climb* to bleed speed at or near idle; sometimes it's hard to bleed that last 10 mph to get to flap extension, so a little back pressure is needed. I am not talking about a large change in altitude, only 50 feet, but traffic and airspace conditions rules. Once you get the flaps out lower nose and get back to pattern.

Not disagreeing, but at the risk of repeating myself... or just do an overhead. You don't need to be in formation to do an overhead approach. Come in at cruise airspeed, and you can still easily be at flap speed when you hit downwind.

RV9798 08-21-2006 10:07 AM

Building????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by N941WR
When landing, just remember:

Pitch for speed
Power for placement (distance)

It does sound like you are having fun. So... Do you miss building? ;)


Well it's strange not being in the garage and dreaming about flying. But.....I still have to finish the interior....put the nose pants on.....learn new things about flying, Learn about leaning and using the EIS effectively ect. This is definitively cool... but I might help 3 other builders in the area doing RV's as soon as I am get the craving of pounding rivets...

Well.....got to go and fly my plane

Pete

akarmy 08-21-2006 11:21 AM

Just to add my 2 bits...

First, if you haven't flown a 9, then you really should before saying they are just like the rest of the RV's. I did transition training with Seager in the 6A with CS prop... patterns and approach are nothing like my FP 9A...

So for me I fly 120-110 mph 45 and onto downwind. Pull to idle abeam the numbers, hold altitude until the speed bleeds to 100, drop half flaps, turn base once you have 500fpm descent established. Drop the rest of the flaps on base. Target 70mph, turn final, slow to 60-65 over the numbers. Works every time... All these speeds are in MPH.

That's just how I do it. There are other ways....

David-aviator 08-21-2006 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan
Not disagreeing, but at the risk of repeating myself... or just do an overhead. You don't need to be in formation to do an overhead approach. Come in at cruise airspeed, and you can still easily be at flap speed when you hit downwind.

Otherwise known as "rolling your socks down". Two or three G's will bleed off a lot of airspeed quick.

The first time I heard the term "roll your socks down" was in a previous life at age 21, doing some day fighter stuff as part of a F-86L training curriculum. The instructor would be riding high on the perch as his students rolled in on the target and made a simulated pass with simulated guns blazing away. If you did it right, he would call out on the radio, "now that's how to roll your socks down, good job". Those were fun days.

We have a couple old geazer ex fighter pilots around here who still fly their RV's like that. Going out for the proverbial $100 hamberger a while back, I looked out on the wing and there was Bill, flying inverted. He stayed that way about a minute until his eye balls were distended and roll right side up again. And he also was falling behind, the RV-4 doesn't go as fast inverted as right side up.

These machines are fun to fly. :)

dd

DeltaRomeo 08-21-2006 11:57 AM

I'm w/Dan on this completely. Solo (or in formation) I (we) arrive for the overhead approach every time. Nothing...not even a C/S prop....slows down the RV faster than a 2-3g 180 turn. Standard safety disclaimers apply....

b,
d

jrsites 08-21-2006 12:04 PM

I happen to agree with Dan. I think the overhead is the safest approach there is, especially in airplanes like the RVs, which have a pretty high power-off sink rate (well, not the -9 or -9A, which I understand this thread was originally regarding).

Seems to me that being over the numbers, at pattern altitude, at cruise speed is the safest scenario for making a safe landing after losing an engine. Certainly much safer than losing an engine halfway through a downwind leg that is being flown a mile out from the runway.

Plus, they're just plain fun to do. Nailing a perfectly executed overhead approach is one of those rare aviation moments that brings a silly grin to your face. For now, my only opportunity to do them is in a 172, but even that's enjoyable. I still pratice them. It's a shame that they're not taught as part of the PPL curricululm.

N916K 08-21-2006 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo
Solo (or in formation) I (we) arrive for the overhead approach every time.


What is the proper (if there is one) way to call an overhead approach, at both an uncontrolled and a control airport?


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