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-   -   Probably dumb question about the Van's practice kit rivets (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=175714)

jdog0411 10-02-2019 02:59 PM

Probably dumb question about the Van's practice kit rivets
 
Hi everyone,

Just got my Van's practice control surface kit (ordered 2 of them actually), and have a dumb question. The rivets that came with the kit are in 5 little baggies, and they are labeled "Bag Class Training 1, 2, 3" etc. They aren't labeled with the rivet code, or size in inches or anything. I can go about measuring them with a caliper to figure out what size they are I guess, but I'm not sure how accurate my caliper is.

For anyone who has put together the practice kit, do you know what rivet sizes are in what bag? This is my first time really ever laying eyes on rivets, so I'm not able to just judge their size by looking at them yet.

Thanks in advance.

Robin8er 10-02-2019 03:21 PM

It's been forever since I built that thing, but I do believe they are labeled. Look a little closer, It's usually in small font in the middle of the bag. I'd be surprised if they didnt label it.

wjb 10-02-2019 03:23 PM

Van's does this alot ... kits for individual sub-assemblies. I prefer to have all my parts sorted by type, so I generally split open the kits and sort the parts into individual bins.

You should have no trouble measuring the rivet length with almost any caliper. They step in 1/16" increments (except for the 3-3.5, which is 1/32 longer than the 3-3). If you're so inclined, dump all the bags in a pan and sort.

Fortunately, for the larger kits, the rivets come by the pound in their own individual bags. No sorting necessary there. After working with them a bit, you'll be able to eyeball easily the difference between a 3-3, 3-3.5 and a 3-4 rivet. You'll achieve rivet "perfect pitch".

FloMo14Builder 10-02-2019 04:27 PM

My rivet bags for the practice kit not only said Class Training Bag 1 etc.. but on the next line or two or three it listed the various sizes of rivet in that bag.

jdog0411 10-02-2019 05:28 PM

Unfortunately, they neglected that part on these. Just says the bag number, a barcode, and a date. Thanks Vans.

I'm almost wondering if these were originally intended for a Vans workshop or something, rather than being labeled for the practice kit.


wirejock 10-02-2019 07:12 PM

Rivets
 
When in doubt, insert in the hole and use a rivet gauge or caliper to measure. You should have 1.5D. If my memory is working that's about .140" protruding (.09375 X 1.5) Good practice anyway. Not that Vans would ever spec the wrong length rivet.:D

jdog0411 10-02-2019 07:22 PM

Ok, guess I'll have to do this the hard way, although I suppose that is good practice.

David Paule 10-02-2019 07:25 PM

I think that Van's often mixes parts in a bag. They sure did for my RV_3B kits. Of course the RV-3B generally gets a hair less respect on parts than the newer kits (although good builder support).

Learn to measure the rivets. It'll pay off down the road.

Dave

DaveLS 10-02-2019 07:34 PM

For the solid rivets,

Separate by eye into stem width 3/32, or 1/8 inch,

Then by factory head type, flat or round,

Then separate, again by eye, by stem length.

Measure one of each group,

Should now be able to label the rivets with the correct nomenclature.

Really not a bad learning exercise.

Same approach works for pulled rivets.

Vans often put different rivets, nuts, screws, washers, (and other small stuff) in the same parts bag for my RV12 build.


-Dave

wjb 10-02-2019 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdog0411 (Post 1377518)
Unfortunately, they neglected that part on these. Just says the bag number, a barcode, and a date. Thanks Vans.

At least they look all the same (3-4's I think!). Yea, labeling is not too helpful, but they are easy to measure, either prior or with a gauge after insertion like Larry said.

Thought the early kits are have very detailed instructions, the later ones have less detailed instructions, like "install engine and avionics" ... requires extra study by the student using other sources of info (this forum, other hombuilding books, hangar neighbors, etc)

It's all about recreation and education! It's a fun journey .. roll up your sleeves and dig in!

Charles in SC 10-02-2019 07:37 PM

In case you do not have one, get a micrometer and learn to measure them. This skill will come in handy later.

jdog0411 10-02-2019 08:33 PM

By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.

wirejock 10-02-2019 08:43 PM

Caliper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdog0411 (Post 1377560)
By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.

Caliper yes but a good one. I still use my Craftsman dial caliper. I bought several digitals over the years and every one was sloppy junk.
Several ways to measure with one too so get some help. There are two sets of jaws for inside and outside plus the end is used for depth.

BillL 10-03-2019 06:32 AM

And so it begins . . . .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdog0411 (Post 1377543)
Ok, guess I'll have to do this the hard way, although I suppose that is good practice.

Your first lesson learned. This way of thinking will serve you well, look, think, ask, then choose a course of action satisfying your needs for information. Otherwise, you will get new parts then ask/answer the questions.

Look at Travers.com, they will have a 4 hour sale on digital Mitutoyo digital 6" calipers. Usually around $110, get one and you will never regret it. The sale is a couple times a year. I got one for home when my 40 yr old dial caliper went to the hangar with the plane. It was $130.

EDIT: Oh, when you finish building the kit, drill out all the rivets and do it again. That will complete your learning with the kit. It's a skill you will definitely need.

Charles in SC 10-03-2019 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdog0411 (Post 1377560)
By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.

Yes, this tool will come in handy many times throughout the build. I use mine a lot to check the thickness of aluminum sheet, I always double check drill bit size before drilling. The size wears off.

RJK983 10-04-2019 03:09 PM

Inventory...
 
If you read the inventory it itemises the bag and contents. Or at least it did when mine arrived.

Mine came with blind rivets mixed in with one size of solid rivets, easy to separate them out.

Desert Rat 10-04-2019 03:53 PM

FYI- when you get the "real" kits, the hardware bags all have an inventory number. You can reference the packing list to see what is in each bag.

Gusmax 10-04-2019 03:55 PM

parts organizer
 
Get yourself something like these for all of your hardware and rivets. They work way better than the little drawers that tip over easily. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Plano-St...5430/204591384

Vol88 10-04-2019 06:09 PM

RV Training Project bag contents
 
I just found a Class Project inventory from 1/14/13. Here are the bag contents it lists:

Bag 1: AN426AD3-3 rivets .02 lbs
Bag 2: AN426AD3-3.5 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 3: AN426AD3-4 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 4: AN426AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 6 AD-41-ABS pop rivets
Bag 5: AN470AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 2 MSP-42 pop rivets

I found this today while inventorying a box of papers from the original builders of my "new" RV10.

Maybe it will match what you have. Regardless, have a blast building!

gasman 10-04-2019 07:10 PM

These...... https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...igital+caliper will get you through your entire build for under $20.00.

Do not over spend for tools that you are not going into business with.

Gear 10-04-2019 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasman (Post 1378014)
These...... https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-d...igital+caliper will get you through your entire build for under $20.00.

Do not over spend for tools that you are not going into business with.

I bought one of those....stopped measuring correctly after 1 use. YMMV

jdog0411 10-06-2019 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vol88 (Post 1378003)
I just found a Class Project inventory from 1/14/13. Here are the bag contents it lists:

Bag 1: AN426AD3-3 rivets .02 lbs
Bag 2: AN426AD3-3.5 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 3: AN426AD3-4 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 4: AN426AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 6 AD-41-ABS pop rivets
Bag 5: AN470AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 2 MSP-42 pop rivets

I found this today while inventorying a box of papers from the original builders of my "new" RV10.

Maybe it will match what you have. Regardless, have a blast building!

Thank you sir! I believe that does match whats in the kits I got. That helps a lot.


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