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-   -   New (July 2013) Garmin GTR 200 10 Watt COM Radio for Experimental Aircraft (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=102306)

g3xpert 07-25-2013 06:14 AM

New (July 2013) Garmin GTR 200 10 Watt COM Radio for Experimental Aircraft
 
Garmin is pleased to announce the new GTR 200 panel mount COM radio which was desgined specifically for experimental and light sport aircraft.

The GTR 200 offers a slim design (1.35" high) and powerful features including advanced auto-squelch, 3D audio, stereo intercom, stereo music input, dual alert inputs, best-in-class standby frequency monitoring, on-screen frequency identification, and much more.



A sunlight readable display with large easy to read text and frequency identification labels means you never forget which frequency is tuned. Two user defined softkeys let you have immediate access to functions like pilot isolate and music on/off. Large, high quality knobs with a great feel are a pleasure to use.


Many radios support user defined frequency presets, but few are so easy to enter and use. Large 10 character labels make it easy to identify airport and frequency type. To select a user frequency, simply press the inner dual knob, select the USER frequency group with the outer knob, and then use the inner knob to select the frequency and transfer to the standby position.


When the GTR 200 is connected to a Garmin G3X EFIS, select Garmin portable GPS units, or many other experimental EFIS systems which support the legacy SL40 protocol, flight plan and nearby airport frequency groups are constantly and automatically transferred over a serial link into the GTR 200 for easy use.

To see all of the frequencies for an airport (for example KOSH has 7), push the inner knob, select the airport with the outer knob, then select and transfer the frequency to the standby position. Nothing complicated or confusing about using this powerful feature.


A large volume bar with numerical level indication makes it super easy to restore your favorite COM volume every time. Press the MENU key and you can quickly adjust both intercom and music volume.


The 3D audio feature provides spatial separation of the active frequency, monitored standby frequency, and pilot/copilot audio streams, making it even easier to recognize that you are receiving on the active or standby frequencies without looking for the RX indicator.


The GTR 200 has a front accessible micro SD card for user installed software updates should these be needed.

The GTR 200 does not have an installed database, yet is able to use frequency information from attached devices to perform automatic frequency identification of manually tuned frequencies. Hundreds of nearby frequencies/IDs are automatically and constantly transferred to the GTR 200 by G3X (V8.20 and later) and Garmin Aera 5XX/660/7XX and GPSMAP 69X portables.

The expanded protocol to perform this enhanced feature is publicly available making it possible for any brand EFIS to integrate in this manner with the GTR 200.

The GTR 200 is easy to install, with a standard density 37 pin connector and support for both 14 and 28 volt aircraft. The GTR 200 is 10 Watt and supports 25 kHz channel spacing.

The GTR 200 is expected to be available in August for a Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) of $1,199.

For more detailed information, specifications and a comprehensive lineup of all our products for Experimental and Light Sport aircraft please visit Garmin.com/experimental or contact your Garmin dealer.

Here is a link to an demonstration video made at Oshkosh this week.
AvWeb Product Minute: Garmin's GTR200 Radio with 3-D Audio

Come visit us at Oshkosh to see and discuss this new product. We will be giving a seminar Mon-Sat at 1:00 PM which will present this new product and the other new for 2013 G3X system components.

Thanks,
Steve

Mike D 07-25-2013 06:41 AM

Nice product!
Like the looks, that the database is not mandatory, the user update-ability, and the open source frequency transfer.

Good job guys.

Will the 3D sound require a special headset?

Pdtofly 07-25-2013 06:42 AM

New Comm
 
Nice unit.

Do you plan on offering it with 8.33 kHz spacing in the future?

Thanks.

Brian

Kahuna 07-25-2013 06:46 AM

I went to check out the install and operators manual from your product link and both links to the docs are broken.
You know us builder types are always looking at the details.;)
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod140495.html

g3xpert 07-25-2013 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D (Post 791374)
Nice product!
Like the looks, that the database is not mandatory, the user update-ability, and the open source frequency transfer.

Good job guys.

Will the 3D sound require a special headset?

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your kind words. The GTR 200 can be used with either stereo or mono headsets, but to receive the benefits of 3D audio, you must use a stereo headset.

Brian - we haven't ruled out offering a 8.33 kHz capable model, but nothing to communicate at this point. We do, of course, offer the GTR 225 in an 8.33 kHz capable model.

Kahuna - manuals should be posted soon. (update - available now)

Thanks,
Steve

jthocker 07-25-2013 06:57 AM

Wow! Great new product. Can't wait to read what the nay sayer's will complain about! ;)

Walt 07-25-2013 07:05 AM

And it looks like this should squeeze into the old SL40 slot which is 1.30" high, nice :D

Snowflake 07-25-2013 07:17 AM

Wow... Nice! Any chance it would be tray-compatible with an iCom A210?

I think the only thing missing is Bluetooth. If it had that, I'd buy it today.

g3xpert 07-25-2013 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflake (Post 791387)
Wow... Nice! Any chance it would be tray-compatible with an iCom A210?

Hello Rob,

Sorry, no if you mean pull out the A210, leave the A210 rack, insert the GTR 200 into that rack.

Thanks,
Steve

ColoRv 07-25-2013 07:39 AM

Nice! Isn't this the third radio you guys have released this year? Combined with autopilot, servos, etc....I have to wonder, are you getting any sleep at all Garmin?

Mike S 07-25-2013 08:40 AM

You mention it uses the legacy SL 40 control protocols, but does it just slide into a SL 40 can?? Electrical pin out the same?

I suspect if it was a direct exchange without needing wiring or mounting work, it would increase sales potential.

sbalmos 07-25-2013 08:44 AM

Is the 3D audio only available if using the built-in intercom, or can this be hooked up to an external non-3D audio panel (a PMA8000 in my case) and still get the 3D separation of the active and standby frequencies?

Neal@F14 07-25-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthocker (Post 791381)
Can't wait to read what the nay sayer's will complain about! ;)

No karaoke mode on the music input for the integrated intercom like the PM3000 has... :p

Ironflight 07-25-2013 08:52 AM

I got a chance to play with one of these yesterday - it is definitely a worthy replacement for the SL-40, even if you don't use any of the advanced features. The sound is great - wil have to see how the intercom behaves in a noisy cockpit environment, but since it is the same design as in their audio panel, I suspect it will be good as well.

Price is excellent - I will be curious to see where the street price settles. For a one-radio VFR ship, this is going to be a real contender. If it slipped wright into an ICOM tray (it doesn't), the Val might be sporting one soon....alas....

g3xpert 07-25-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal@F14 (Post 791428)
No karaoke mode on the music input for the integrated intercom [?]

Hello Neal,

I believe by "karoke mode" you mean "music isn't muted when someone talks on the intercom". I can confirm that the GTR 200 intercom does not cause music to be muted. We recognize that this is how people actually use an intercom with music, so we made this the default behavior! Of course there is a quick softkey to manually mute music should you wish to do so.

On a related note, you can choose on the fly whether or not received comm audio will mute the music input. I often set this differently based on the type of flying I'm doing (VFR or IFR).

- Matt

g3xpert 07-25-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbalmos (Post 791423)
Is the 3D audio only available if using the built-in intercom, or can this be hooked up to an external non-3D audio panel (a PMA8000 in my case) and still get the 3D separation of the active and standby frequencies?

Hello Scott,

This is a very good question. If you look at the installation manual you will see that the GTR 200 Receiver Audio Out to a separate audio panel is just like any other COM radio - mono.

To receive the benefits of 3D audio, you need to be using the GTR 200 internal intercom with the stereo headset(s) connected to the GTR 200.

Thanks,
Steve

Neal@F14 07-25-2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g3xpert (Post 791433)
Hello Neal,

I believe by "karoke mode" you mean "music isn't muted when someone talks on the intercom". I can confirm that the GTR 200 intercom does not cause music to be muted. We recognize that this is how people actually use an intercom with music, so we made this the default behavior! Of course there is a quick softkey to manually mute music should you wish to do so.

On a related note, you can choose on the fly whether or not received comm audio will mute the music input. I often set this differently based on the type of flying I'm doing (VFR or IFR).

- Matt

Outstanding!!!!

If I were Garmin, I'd make that feature obvious and prominent in your advertisements.

Despite the fact that supposed "common sense" would try to dictate that automatically muting the music everytime someone speaks into a headset mic or an incoming transmission is received on the radio would be the bureaucratically determined "safest" way to operate music thru an intercom... in actual practice it's absolutely the worst, and most distracting way to operate, and I think having the music level erratically go up and down creates unneeded confusion when just simply leaving the music at a constant volume and letting your brain select what it wants to focus its attention upon in the auditory mix is the natural way the brain works while listening to music anyway.

ccsmith51 07-25-2013 10:13 AM

SL-40 replacement
 
Hi Steve,

Can you answer the question above on whether the GTR 200 is a drop-in replacement for the SL-40? If so I am very interested....

Thanks,

g3xpert 07-25-2013 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccsmith51 (Post 791456)
Hi Steve,

Can you answer the question above on whether the GTR 200 is a drop-in replacement for the SL-40? If so I am very interested....

Thanks,

Hello,

We are struggling to answer the several questions regarding drop in replacement because there are Yes and No answers.

No, because the GTR 200 is several inches shorter, doesn't plug into the same rack, and supports quite different wiring including stereo headsets and stereo music.

Yes, because it has a similar height, and especially if your SL40 is just being used as a COM radio, it would be quite easy to remove the SL40 and rack and move the wiring functions onto new pins on the GTR 200 connector. You would probably want to install stereo headphone jacks and wire those up instead of the mono jacks you were probably using with the SL40. They both use essentially the same serial interface, so even retaining the ability to remote tune the radio from an external system would still work if you just connect the wires to the right pins.

We are happy to get into as much detail as you like. Thank you for your interest.

Thanks,
Steve

Mike S 07-25-2013 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g3xpert (Post 791491)

No, because the GTR 200 is several inches shorter, doesn't plug into the same rack, and supports quite different wiring


Steve

:(

Doubt if I will be buying one in that case.

krw5927 07-25-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 791500)
:(

Doubt if I will be buying one in that case.

Not so fast, Mike. These statements lead one to imagine that it would be fairly simple to design a drop-in adapter "box" which picks up existing pin-outs in the SL40 tray, fills the extra depth in the rack, and re-connects existing wiring to the appropriate pins and securing features on the GTR200.

I'd be quite happy to consider designing and producing one, if not for the possibility that Garmin would release their own very soon.

DaleB 07-25-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 791500)
:(

Doubt if I will be buying one in that case.

I'll take the one they made for you, then. :) Well, I would if it weren't for all these pesky rivets that steadfastly refuse to jump into their holes and squeeze themselves.

Seriously, the stereo intercom with proper muting of music sources and "3D" features, built into the radio, are the killer combination for me. Saves having to buy, mount and wire one more box.

Let me put it this way. Just yesterday (I swear this is true) I was pondering building my own COM radio and intercom. I mean, this isn't rocket science... it's a low powered VHF AM transceiver. I figured if I built one I'd do it with two receivers, so you could monitor your standby frequency. Taking a page from some ham radio projects, I figured stereo separation would work well for that. And if I were going to build a radio, may as well make the audio section handle all the intercom duties as well. Plus, I figured if I built something nice enough I could get it FCC certified and sell it -- to help pay for my RV.

Then today, this. The good news: now I can concentrate on something else. The bad news: I guess I have to keep my day job.

I think the only thing Garmin didn't do right was the COM audio output. If I were designing this I'd make provision for "3D" stereo audio output, with menu selectable mono or stereo output. As it is you have a really nice rig for a 2-place airplane, but people who have already invested in a 4-place stereo intercom or audio panel (like, you know, RV-10 builders) might like to have that feature without having to use the GTR's intercom.

Still... nice job, guys.

Mike S 07-25-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krw5927 (Post 791536)
Not so fast, Mike. These statements lead one to imagine that it would be fairly simple to design a drop-in adapter "box" which picks up existing pin-outs in the SL40 tray, fills the extra depth in the rack, and re-connects existing wiring to the appropriate pins and securing features on the GTR200.

Already been thinking of this, but no actual box----just a cross over cable, and mounting screw extension.

Steve (G3expert) and I have been trading emails, and he mentioned something that got me to thinking along that line.

It is good to have that kind of personal contact with people "on the inside" :D

rv8ch 07-25-2013 01:59 PM

radio depth
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g3xpert (Post 791491)
... because the GTR 200 is several inches shorter...

Hi Steve,

Congrats on a super product! Really happy to see that it is not as deep as the other radios on the market.

Do you have any international "certification" plans for this baby?

Regards, Mickey

ccsmith51 07-25-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 791545)
Already been thinking of this, but no actual box----just a cross over cable, and mounting screw extension.

Steve (G3expert) and I have been trading emails, and he mentioned something that got me to thinking along that line.

It is good to have that kind of personal contact with people "on the inside" :D

I went from very interested, to not interested, back to very interested in one afternoon!!

I like the technical's and capabilities of the GTR 200, but not enough to go through the trouble of tearing my panel apart to replace the tray. Some kind of adapter would be ideal....

Mike S 07-25-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccsmith51 (Post 791553)
I went from very interested, to not interested, back to very interested in one afternoon!!

I like the technical's and capabilities of the GTR 200, but not enough to go through the trouble of tearing my panel apart to replace the tray. Some kind of adapter would be ideal....

Chris, EXACTLY the same thing I went through.

"but not enough to go through the trouble of tearing my panel apart to replace the tray."

I totally understand, did that when I added the SL30, and GMA 240.----Major hemorrhoid;) that was.

Brantel 07-25-2013 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleB (Post 791539)
I think the only thing Garmin didn't do right was the COM audio output. If I were designing this I'd make provision for "3D" stereo audio output, with menu selectable mono or stereo output. As it is you have a really nice rig for a 2-place airplane, but people who have already invested in a 4-place stereo intercom or audio panel (like, you know, RV-10 builders) might like to have that feature without having to use the GTR's intercom.

Still... nice job, guys.

Are there any intercoms/audio panels on the market that will accept a "stereo" output from a COM radio?

DaleB 07-25-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantel (Post 791566)
Are there any intercoms/audio panels on the market that will accept a "stereo" output from a COM radio?

Not yet, I don't think. Bet there will be, though. Good point, though -- I guess it wouldn't be a big deal for people who have existing 4-place intercoms. Still, it would be essentially a zero cost design feature that could be used later on.

g3xpert 07-25-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv8ch (Post 791547)
Hi Steve,

Congrats on a super product! Really happy to see that it is not as deep as the other radios on the market.

Do you have any international "certification" plans for this baby?

Regards, Mickey

Hello Mickey,

We don't have any immediate plans to certify this radio. One of the reasons it is so affordable is that we didn't go through an expensive certification program before bringing it to market. Our team focuses on non-certified products and markets.

Thanks for your interest,
Steve

Neal@F14 07-25-2013 06:02 PM

If my SL-40 ever bites the dust, this new radio will definitely be on my short list for a replacement. It looks to be a perfect fit for any typical 2-place RV.

rgmwa 07-25-2013 06:29 PM

Vans are now making this the standard radio for the RV12

https://www.facebook.com/notes/vans-...39940599349649

hgerhardt 07-25-2013 09:50 PM

For those of us with a GTN 6/7xx and GMA 240 already installed, any way to get the 3-d audio feature to work? I suspect not, without a hardware change to the GMA 240.

I'd get a GTR 200 just to be able to get the nice tuning that I miss from my old KX-155A, plus the remote tuning from the G3X. After flying with my GTN 650 for 20 or so hours now, I never really have warmed up to the radio operation of that touchscreen thing. Plus, I was more than a little miffed that the G3X cannot remote-tune the GTN's, which I didn't find out until much later, after I had the new panel installed... everybody I talked to conveniently left out that tidbit.

Heinrich

flyvans.com 07-26-2013 12:31 AM

8.33 at no hilariously expensive upcharge would be my #1 requirement. actually not just mine, but all of Europe.

g3xpert 07-26-2013 09:17 AM

GTR 200 / SL 40 size comparison
 
Thanks to everyone for your interest in the GTR 200. We're excited about finally being able to reveal it, and we hope you'll have an opportunity to come see it at Oshkosh next week.

We have received several questions about the relative size and weight of the GTR 200 compared to the SL 40, so I thought I would post the most accurate information I have here for all to find. All numbers come from the products' respective installation manuals:

Height of mounting rack: (not including "dimples")
SL 40: 1.30"
GTR 200: 1.325" (0.025" taller)

Height of front bezel:
SL 40: 1.30"
GTR 200" 1.35" (0.05" taller)

Mounting rack depth behind panel: (not including connectors or wiring)
SL 40: 11.45"
GTR 200: 7.98" (3.47" shorter)

Weight: (unit only)
SL 40: 2.1 lbs
GTR 200: 1.34 lbs (0.76 lb lighter)

- Matt

Mike S 07-26-2013 09:35 AM

Those dimensions are so close to the SL 40, I just cant imagine what the designers were thinking when they chose to not make this unit a drop/slide in replacement that would allow us to keep the SL 40 tray.:confused::confused:

SteinAir 07-26-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 791814)
Those dimensions are so close to the SL 40, I just cant imagine what the designers were thinking when they chose to not make this unit a drop/slide in replacement that would allow us to keep the SL 40 tray.:confused::confused:

I don't know for sure and I can't speak for them, but there may have been other factors in making that decision for the team...like perhaps some OEM's with much less space behind the panel wanted a radio that wouldn't protrude through a sub-panel. Or, perhaps they wanted a modern radio that wasn't as deep as the past units have been to remain competitive with all the other radios on the market that are less deep, or the components inside the radio dictated the sizing to an extent (if they perhaps used components from other products in producing this unit). I agree it may have been nice to have a slide in replacement, but making it bigger for the sake of making it bigger wouldn't necessarily have been my first choice. Also, the old "cam" system for the SL series radio's isn't the most elegant of devices for inserting/removing and holding the radio in the tray compared to all their new products with the nicer cam system on them, nor are the older backplates compared to the newer "snap on style" backplates.

Anyway, I suppose it's like everything and was a compromise between past customers and future potential customers - and from a business standpoint which ones would garner more business. I'm certain there is/was a market for SL40 retro's and servicing those customer's desires would be a good thing for sure, but I'm also guessing that wasn't the driving factor for creating this radio. Perhaps a secondary reasoning, but I can't see a business case for making that the primary driver (at least from my rather uninformed standpoint). I'm sure someone somewhere ran the numbers and had we the ability to know those numbers it might make more sense to us.

That's just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

Ironflight 07-26-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S (Post 791814)
Those dimensions are so close to the SL 40, I just cant imagine what the designers were thinking when they chose to not make this unit a drop/slide in replacement that would allow us to keep the SL 40 tray.:confused::confused:

Quit whining Starkey! You know you want one - just plan to fly over to Carson some time this fall and I bet we could change it for you in a day's work! Once I unpack my shop....On second hand, better wait until after the first part of next year....;)

ColoRv 07-26-2013 09:58 AM

Quote:

That's just my 2 cents as usual!
Something from Stein that costs 2 cents!!! Send me one!

Mike S 07-26-2013 10:00 AM

Stein, agree with you concerning the length of unit, but come on now, 0.050" in face plate height, and 0.030" in box height???

If I were to buy one of these units, I would have to readjust the radio stack for a measly 30 to 50 thou???

Sorry, but I think this was a miss on what otherwise is a big hit of a new product.

g3xpert 07-26-2013 10:08 AM

Hello Mike,

As pilots, builders, and aircraft owners, we appreciate the work required to retrofit new avionics into a flying airplane. Believe me, if it was physically possible to squeeze the same features, including the large easy-to-read display and reliable latching mechanism into a 1.30" SL40 sized tall radio, we would have done it. As it is, we chose to provide the best possible radio we could make, accepting the extra fifty thousands of an inch of bezel height.

In practice, the tolerances of the sheet metal racks are such that - unless your radio stack is exceptionally tight - we think you should be able to remove an existing SL 40 mounting rack and install a GTR 200 rack with little or no filing required. The wiring changes can be done in a few minutes, since the GTR 200 and SL 40 use the same standard density connector pins. The whole process should take less time than an oil change! :) We may even add a drawing to the GTR 200 installation manual to show exactly which pins to connect where, when retrofitting an existing SL40-equipped panel.

thanks,
- Matt


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