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-   -   Possible AD for certain NAVWORX ADS-B Units (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=142967)

txshan130 06-06-2017 10:17 AM

Synopsis anyone? Haven't had time to read it through yet. But from my first glance, it appears that we are in trouble if Navworx doesn't cooperate and come up with some solutions that the FAA agrees with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnAJohnson (Post 1178520)
Ralph,
Unfortunately, we who are using the 430W as a position source are still screwed. The AD is out. I don't know how many Navworx deceptions I can put up with (or afford). Here's the pertinent info about the 430W:


recapen 06-06-2017 10:38 AM

OK - so the AD is out on the streets...the way I read it, within 6 months of July 11th (Jan 11, 2018 - give or take a day!), the 0012, 0013, and 8013 PN's are useless in that state.

You can't get an upgrade of the internal GPS until after 1 July - then Dallas Avionics will be busy ($599 more for us early adopters)...do we know that this upgrade will turn our units in to 0112/0113 and 'certified' EXP boxes? Then more money to put in the second GPS antenna for the upgraded box...customers are currently on the hook for both of these!

Is anyone pursuing the use of the 400W/500W, 600/700, or 480 as a certified external solution? If these are certified for approaches and contain the software to output the proper data stream - we should be able to use them.

I plan to request the use of my 430W as an Alternate Method of Compliance and see what they say. I'll update with their response!

rleffler 06-06-2017 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1178535)
OK - so the AD is out on the streets...the way I read it, within 6 months of July 11th (Jan 11, 2018 - give or take a day!), the 0012, 0013, and 8013 PN's are useless in that state.

You can't get an upgrade of the internal GPS until after 1 July - then Dallas Avionics will be busy ($599 more for us early adopters)...do we know that this upgrade will turn our units in to 0112/0113 and 'certified' EXP boxes? Then more money to put in the second GPS antenna for the upgraded box...customers are currently on the hook for both of these!

Is anyone pursuing the use of the 400W/500W, 600/700, or 480 as a certified external solution? If these are certified for approaches and contain the software to output the proper data stream - we should be able to use them.

I plan to request the use of my 430W as an Alternate Method of Compliance and see what they say. I'll update with their response!

I was going to do the same for my GTN650. If you read the comments that the FAA published last week, it stated the Garmin told them that the 480 wasn't compliant.

I'm not optimistic at the moment, the AD appears to be harsher than I anticipated. It also doesn't paint a clear path with the Navworx announced upgrades. Navworx still has to prove to the FAA that the new units are compliant. Based upon their track record, I'm not sure what to expect.

recapen 06-06-2017 11:02 AM

I have requested the AMOC via email - I'll update with any response!
Since Garmin updated their 400W/500W software for this, I would think it could be used!

There I go, thinking again!

JohnAJohnson 06-06-2017 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1178535)
...do we know that this upgrade will turn our units in to 0112/0113 and 'certified' EXP boxes?

My question too. Just because Navworx says it will make things 2020 compliant doesn't make it so. Fool me once (ADS600-B), Fool me twice (GNS430W)...

And here's another question.... I cannot see anyway that the exchange boxes will carry the 112/113 part numbers. Will the new boxes, with their new part numbers be eligible for the $500 rebate (if installed before the September cutoff)? Will the FAA consider the 012/013 boxes as legitimate ADS-B installations, thus nullifying the second dip at the well for rebate purposes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1178535)
Is anyone pursuing the use of the 400W/500W, 600/700, or 480 as a certified external solution? If these are certified for approaches and contain the software to output the proper data stream - we should be able to use them.

I plan to request the use of my 430W as an Alternate Method of Compliance and see what they say. I'll update with their response!

I see lots of ADS-B systems authorized to use the 430W as a position source at the FAA site and a lot of systems that aren't. This tells me that Garmin or other WAAS equipment isn't an automatic shoe-in as a position source but must be certificated WITH the specific ADS-B box. Insanity that would probably take a company two years and a wheelbarrow full of money to do.

I can't see an individual getting an AMOC for the 430W, but if you were to do it and have it approved, it should open the door for everyone else to do it. Press on and please keep us posted!

Jordan1976 06-06-2017 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnAJohnson (Post 1178544)
Will the new boxes, with their new part numbers be eligible for the $500 rebate (if installed before the September cutoff)? Will the FAA consider the 012/013 boxes as legitimate ADS-B installations, thus nullifying the second dip at the well for rebate purposes?

If the aircraft has ever transmitted ADS-B OUT before, it is not eligible for the rebate. Doesn't matter if the previous ADS-B was compliant or not, certified or not.

DavidBunin 06-06-2017 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recapen (Post 1178535)
OK - so the AD is out on the streets...the way I read it, within 6 months of July 11th (Jan 11, 2018 - give or take a day!), the 0012, 0013, and 8013 PN's are useless in that state.

The way I read it, the AD is effective July 11 and compliance required in six months. December is the sixth month after July, so action must be taken by December 31, 2017.

The FAA waited a long time to publish this AD. I would guess that they have reached some internal point in the approval process for the new NavWorx products.

I think there will be multiple paths forward by the end of this year. Let's see what announcements are made at Oshkosh.

RV6_flyer 06-06-2017 12:55 PM

Link to the AD
 
Since I have not seen anyone post the link to the AD on the FAA website, here is where you can download the actual FAA AD document.

ccrawford 06-06-2017 12:58 PM

Good clarification in the AD. About what I expected.

Summary of what happened with the NavWorx boxes:

- NavWorx released ADS-B boxes with an uncertified GPS chip, using a SIL of 0. The FAA was fine with this.
- The FAA decided that units using a SIL of 0 shouldn't get traffic. (why??)
- NavWorx published a software patch to change their SIL from 0 to 3 without actually ensuring their hardware/software was SIL 3 compliant.
- The FAA has rejected this change due to non-compliance, thus the AD.

Re: 430W and GTN650: It is up to NavWorx to confirm performance compliance with those GPS sources, which NavWorx has not done. It would be interesting to see if you can get field approval for that pairing - though I would expect you'd have to show proof of compliance too.

scottg 06-06-2017 02:05 PM

Back on posts #500 and 501, there were comments stating this AD cannot apply to an experimental. Unfortunately ADs can apply to experimentals, and this one does. The FAA clarifies this on page 8 as follows:

Request: EAA and two individual commenters requested the AD not apply to experimental or light sport aircraft, since they are not regulated in the same manner as type-certificated aircraft. EAA states the FAA should address any valid airworthiness concerns with parts intended for experimental aircraft through a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) or safety alert for operators (SAFO). Two commenters requested the AD apply to experimental aircraft, because those aircraft operate in the same airspace as type-certificated aircraft and should use equipment with the same integrity. A few commenters, including AOPA, requested we clarify whether the AD applies to experimental aircraft.

FAA Response: We agree to clarify this issue. We confirm that the AD applies to all aircraft, including experimental, and we revised the AD to clarify the applicability. We made this AD applicable to the ADS600-EXP P/N 200-8013 units because the design of the Model ADS600-EXP P/N 200-8013 is substantially identical to the Model ADS600-B P/N 200-0012 and 200-0013, specifically with regard to the internal GPS and the SIL setting. While some commenters are correct that the FAA has chosen to minimize regulations on experimental aircraft because of the level of the safety risk, these risks normally apply to the individual airplane and do not affect the overall NAS. The safety risks defined in this AD extend beyond one aircraft and could affect many other aircraft as well as ATC. Therefore, we find it necessary to include experimental aircraft in the AD's applicability.

We do not agree that an SAIB or SAFO would be an appropriate solution. These documents contain information and recommended actions that are voluntary and not regulatory. Moreover, an SAIB is issued only for airworthiness concerns that do not rise to the level of an unsafe condition.

The mission of the FAA is aviation safety. ADs are used by the FAA to correct known safety defects. It would be contrary to the intent of the FAA's mission and statutory authority to exclude certain aircraft when we have determined that a part installed on those aircraft has a safety problem.


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