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Would you be interested in an Aerobatic Clinic?

Would you be interested in attending a RV-specific aerobatic clinic.

  • Yes, and I can bring a parachute (my own or borrowed).

    Votes: 58 28.0%
  • Yes, but I can't bring a parachute.

    Votes: 93 44.9%
  • I'm interested but need to know more.

    Votes: 39 18.8%
  • Definitely not interested.

    Votes: 17 8.2%

  • Total voters
    207

ronschreck

Well Known Member
The IAC (International Aerobatic Club) has a keen interest in getting RV pilots to participate in IAC competition. The subject is being discussed at the EAA Board of Directors meeting this week and I have been brought into the discussion by board member, James Clark. We think that a RV-specific aerobatic clinic, similar in structure to formation clinics, would provide an opportunity for RV pilots to learn aerobatics in a safe environment, supervised by experienced RV aerobatic pilots.

Yes, there are numerous aerobatic schools and instructors out there but they can be expensive and more than often instructors are unfamiliar with with the RV's capabilities and limitations. So while you may graduate from such a course with a real appreciation of your skill level in a Decathlon or Pitts, you will likely have little knowledge of RV aerobatics.

The IAC wonders why so few RV pilots participate in IAC competition. I can list a few obstacles:

1. A competitive event is intimidating for a first-time competitor regardless of what you fly.

2. RV pilots have heard that RV's are not suited to competitive aerobatics.

3. RV pilots don't feel they have the skills required to compete.

4. The cost of a parachute (required in competition) is too high.

5. Fear of aircraft damage, injury, or failure.

I believe that most of these obstacles could be addressed and minimized or omitted in the course of instruction at an aerobatic clinic. In my mind, the largest obstacle is the cost of a parachute. Of course once bitten by the aerobatic bug the cost of a parachute becomes less of an obstacle. However, there are those who are unsure and purchasing a parachute in order to attend a clinic would be a wasted expense if they later decide that aerobatics are not for them.

I'm throwing this out there to get some idea of the interest in such a clinic. For now don't be concerned with WHERE such a clinic might be held but let me know if the idea appeals to you or not and state your reasons either way.
 
Perfect

I have been hoping something like this would develop. I have a chute already, and have been anticipating some acro training, but would really like to see it RV specific. I will be watching for details!
 
Great idea Ron. And I think you have the reasons nailed regarding the issues associated with non-RV participation up to this point. In my experience, there is a good bit of cautious aerobatic interest out there. A clinic like this would be an excellent way to get past these issues for pilots who have the interest.

And I would expect that we could gather together a few chutes that could be made available to pilots attending a clinic, if held in the central NC area. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Eric
 
RV Aerobatic Clinic

I would be very interested in attending an RV specific aerobatic clinic. I do not currently own a parachute.

Chad
 
The IAC (International Aerobatic Club) has a keen interest in getting RV pilots to participate in IAC competition. ........... We think that a RV-specific aerobatic clinic, similar in structure to formation clinics, would provide an opportunity for RV pilots to learn aerobatics in a safe environment, supervised by experienced RV aerobatic pilots.

The IAC wonders why so few RV pilots participate in IAC competition. I can list a few obstacles:

1. A competitive event is intimidating for a first-time competitor regardless of what you fly.

This is especially true given that, quite often, if someone is renting, say, a Super D from an FBO, that FBO quite often has an aerobatic instructor who is familiar/participates in aerobatic competitions. Without that, who wants to push down their acro to the competition floor/ceiling without instruction? And how does one know if they are the least bit competitive?


2. RV pilots have heard that RV's are not suited to competitive aerobatics.

3. RV pilots don't feel they have the skills required to compete.

See #1


4. The cost of a parachute (required in competition) is too high.

5. Fear of aircraft damage, injury, or failure.

See #1 - especially with regard to the competition floor/ceiling


I believe that most of these obstacles could be addressed and minimized or omitted in the course of instruction at an aerobatic clinic.

Agreed


In my mind, the largest obstacle is the cost of a parachute.

I don't fly acro without one but YMMV

Of course once bitten by the aerobatic bug the cost of a parachute becomes less of an obstacle. However, there are those who are unsure and purchasing a parachute in order to attend a clinic would be a wasted expense if they later decide that aerobatics are not for them.

One option is clini-rentable chutes. Don't know what the liability iss might be with that though.


I'm throwing this out there to get some idea of the interest in such a clinic.

I'd be interested


For now don't be concerned with WHERE such a clinic might be held but let me know if the idea appeals to you or not and state your reasons either way.

I'd be interested.
 
My wife & I would be interested and we don't have a parachute. My understanding is a parachute won't do you much good in sliders anyways.
 
Regarding parachutes:

The IAC requires that parachutes with a current packing by a certified rigger be worn by all competitors.

A chute packing is good for 180 days.

The FAA requires that chutes be worn by all occupants, except a solo pilot, of an aircraft flown in aerobatic flight.

Aerobatic flight is defined as any intentional maneuver with a bank angle exceeding 60 degrees or pitch up or down exceeding 30 degrees.

It is clear that when RV's are flown with two persons aboard both are required to wear a parachute. A solo pilot is not required to wear a parachute.
 
Very interested. I'm taking upset training now in a Zlin in preparation for phase one. Would love RV specific training with experienced pilots.


Richard Rivera
Ormond Beach, FL
RV7A
 
I'm just not that interested in acro, and much, much less so in competition. I might do an occasional roll or something when no one's looking but that's about it. I got my acro fun out of the way when I was much younger and haven't wanted to do it since.

Having a parachute is not an issue for me. I'll probably have one for my initial flight testing.

I wouldn't have responded except that you did ask why not, if I wasn't interested.

Dave
RV-3B, still making wings, kind of inspiring when you look at it that way, huh?
 
RV acro clinic

Ron, that's a great idea. After 10 contests in a RV, I would:D gladly share some of the lessons learned. Regular acro clinics where all aircraft types participate and are critiqued by an experience judge have also been very beneficial to me. The Sportsman Known sequence for 2015 is very RV friendly so hope to see more RVs enjoying the fun.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama
 
I have joined the IAC, and have been reconfiguring my RV-8 for aerobatics. I have a 'chute available, I would love to participate.
I live near Seattle.....
 
I'm interested - Now I just need to build that RV-14

Can't participate in my 9 :( - so maybe I'll get started on that new plane:)
 
Interested but old

I would be interested just to be better at the odd gentleman aero, I did a aerobatic course when a lot younger ( in a great lakes) but noticed when flying off the aerobatic maneuvers during phase 1 that I felt the G more than I remembered. I also noticed how quickly the RV accelerated when pointing straight down :eek:

The other factors I suspect is that I am fixed pitch, carburated, no inverted oil and no flop tube in the tank. Going over the top to keep it round I get low pressure fuel and oil warnings and the engine revs like the clappers going down.

I did the formation clinic recently and learned a lot so it would be good to be better and smoother and a good knife edge flight past the cameras would be great :D

No parachute.
 
I would be interested just to be better at the odd gentleman aero, I did a aerobatic course when a lot younger ( in a great lakes) but noticed when flying off the aerobatic maneuvers during phase 1 that I felt the G more than I remembered. I also noticed how quickly the RV accelerated when pointing straight down :eek:

No parachute.

I'm kinda like figs, not really interested in competition, but would like to get more familiar/practice some acro just to improve my piloting skills.
 
... I also noticed how quickly the RV accelerated when pointing straight down :eek:

The other factors I suspect is that I am fixed pitch, carburated, no inverted oil and no flop tube in the tank. Going over the top to keep it round I get low pressure fuel and oil warnings and the engine revs like the clappers going down.

I should mention here that the absence of a constant speed prop, inverted oil and fuel, nor fuel injection does NOT bar one from enjoying aerobatics even at the lower levels of competitive aerobatics. For those with a few bucks to spend that want to get serious about competition we can talk about where to spend those bucks to get the most out of your mount.
 
I'm interested. My aileron rolls and barrel rolls to the right are horrible. I do them much better to the left. Engine torque I guess??
 
Yes

Here's another Louisiana flyer that's interested. Probably not on the competition, and don't own a chute, but would consider buying one.
 
Who's airplane are you going to instruct in?

I assume the student's RV, which leaves me out.

Bill,

The syllabus would probably be similar to that used in formation clinics: First ride would be in the instructor's airplane back/right seat with instructor demonstrating. Subsequent rides in the student's airplane with the instructor in the back/right seat until cleared solo.

Student's airplanes would necessarily be capable of aerobatic flight with dual controls.
 
Very interested... however...

I did the w&b on my -7 (1136 empty)

With me at a svelte 225 lbs. and assuming a 170# pax I am left with roughly 10 gallons of fuel to stay within the aerobatic category 1600lbs.

How are others managing 2 up acro?

Rich
 
weight and CG

The weight and CG are issues for dual acro in RVs. I can't/won't do acro with a passenger in my RV-4 because of the weight and aft CG.:eek: For basic acro training, other aircraft could be suitable. Here's a link to available acro training from IAC: http://www.iacusn.org/schools/index.php You would then slightly modify the acro techniques for the RV series. Once Ron gets the first acro workshop going, I'm sure it could be copied else where.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL
 
The weight and CG are issues for dual acro in RVs. I can't/won't do acro with a passenger in my RV-4 because of the weight and aft CG.:eek: For basic acro training, other aircraft could be suitable. Here's a link to available acro training from IAC: http://www.iacusn.org/schools/index.php You would then slightly modify the acro techniques for the RV series. Once Ron gets the first acro workshop going, I'm sure it could be copied else where.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL

Thanks Bill. I put that link into the IAC/RV Working Group. For those interested, I have established a Yahoo Group for RV pilots and other IAC members to communicate and exchange experiences. If you would like to participate go HERE and ask to join. The group was established in 2010 and some notable figures in competition aerobatics are participating.
 
I'd be interested. Like Figs and Walt, I'm interested in the basics, being safe, and expanding my skill set. No chute.
 
I'm interested.

I would be willing to attend an RV aerobatic clinic and I have a chute. Thanks!
 
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Aerobatic clinic

Absolutely. I've wanted to do aerobatics in my plane for some time. However, there is that nagging doubt... did I build this plane good enough, will it hold up? So yes I would love to attend a clinic. Mostly to learn what not to do, or how to avoid stupid rookie mistakes. Tim
 
My aileron rolls and barrel rolls to the right are horrible. I do them much better to the left. Engine torque I guess??

Nope, you've just gotten "handed". Most have a natural preference for doing rolls in one direction, and don't put in the work to do them equally well in both directions. This applies to myself as well- with rolls, spins, snaps, and rolling turns, inside and outside. Significant torque effects won't show up until you get close to zero airspeed, as you might see when doing humptys and hammers.
 
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