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My first panel plan

alwaysoutdoor

Active Member
Greyforge's post yesterday got me thinking that I need to start planning my panel as well- what are your thoughts on my layout?? any insight is welcome (and needed).



Here is what the project looks like so far (1 year of part time work).


 
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Looks good as I am building my panel as well. One thing I was told to avoid and pass this on to you- a panel mounted compass seldom works. To close to avionics wiring can and will interfere with proper compass operation. I went with a pedestal mount on the glare shield on got a big OK to that. My $.02.
 
I remember the fun just beginning at that point. Spent hours planning and taping photos and prints to the blank panel. Hours looking at other panels and checking out the professional built ones at Stein. A few observations:

If you are going to put in heated seats, better plan on heated pitot.

I am very reluctant to mount anything to a panel that isn't going to be there for a while like iPads etc. I would keep panel space reserved for "permanent" stuff. Tablets work just fine on kneepads or mounts, besides they change faster than I can learn how to use them.

Looks like VFR only. Any thought of going IFR in the future? I see you have an Aux power source. Not needed for VFR but nice to have if you age planning to fly at night.

Good to put the cabin heat on the co-pilots side :)

Any stick switches? Great place to put flaps and trim!

Your boost pump has a warning light. Is there more than one place to activate it from? If the switch is the only position where it can be turned on, then light not necessary in my humble opinion. Should be scanning switches as part of procedures. Up is on, down is off. I set up all switches in line and in groups where they are all in the same position during normal periods of flight. I just have to take a quick look and see if they are all in the same position or a quick swipe of my hand without looking.

I love your work space! Green with envy.

This is just my .02 worth! Don't flame me, we all have different thought processes.
 
Thanks for your input guys! I am just a beginner on this and have never done a panel before- I am planning on a VFR panel only right now to keep cost down and really want a tablet (what do people think about the nexus 10?) on the panel for GPS/Sectional/Airport info (and to use up space as I have tons). Where would be the best place for a panel mount whiskey compass so it would be the most reliable? or should I just buy the magnetometer upgrade for the MGL and rely on that and leave the panel mount compass off? The AHRS upgrade is over $800 so I was thinking about not getting it as I am VFR only anyway. I wasn't planning on heated pitot- is this a must? I built the pitot tube that it calls for in the plans. Yah, I guess I don't really need the light for the boost pump- was just thinking it would be very noticeable if it was left on or was bumped on for some reason. The PTT is the only thing I have on the sticks (Going with cheapo grips that actually look pretty nice).

I have the IO360M1B with mags and the low compression pistons to burn car gas. I am about to order the 3 blade catto prop soon and probably will need a 20lb crush plate for aft cg problems.

Does things on the panel look like they are in a good place?
 
That's a lot of progress for 1 year part time!

I would keep that tablet off the panel and mounted to you or your passengers leg. At your rate of building you could be flying in another year to year and a half, the tablet could very well be obsolete. Readability of tablets in the cockpit is another big concern.

Whichever EFIS you decide on deserves the panel real estate directly in front of the pilot (doesn't have to be centered, just first and foremost). It will be the instrument you stare at most. Regardless of the whiskey compass get the magnometer option.

I would keep the boost pump switch away from your start/master/etc, it is switched on/off multiple times during a flight where as the others are usually on for the flights duration. Once flying your left hand will be on the stick and all switches should be easily manipulated with your right hand.

Does the MGL EFIS not have a boost pump warning light?

Why the 7 1/2 amp starter breaker next to the start switch?

What wiring diagram/architecture are you using? I found my wiring architecture dictated at least a third of my panel layout.

For just VFR I wouldn't bother with a backup airspeed, if you really want a backup several manufacturers offer great mini EFIS's for the cost of 2 new airspeed indicators. If you really like the standby airspeed, pair it with an standby altimeter stacked to the left of your main EFIS.

I would leave the fuses (assuming your planning on ATC type fuses) off the panel and put them behind the panel somewhere. Reference the Aeroelectric Connection for why.

Leave the glove box off, way easier to add map/glove pockets on the side/kick panels.

Sit in your cockpit and do some "flying", plug in your headset go through all your checklist and find out what you like and don't like with your layout.

After my written checklist, before I take the runway I use my memorized flow check. It flows top to bottom, right to left takes less than 5 seconds and I consider it my best checklist.

Canopy locked
Fuel desired tank
Alt air in
Mixture rich
Flaps set
Elevator trim set
Throttle idle
Carb heat off
Boost pump on
Lights as required
Ignitions on
EBUS/aux alt on
Master/alt on
Take your time, don't screw up and have some fun!
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Good luck!
 
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Sitting in the seat and doing some flying is really a good suggestion. Find out what the flow will be and how far you can easily reach and see.

One thing I discovered when my project was completed and ready to fly is that with my harness on and snug, I can't reach the far side of the panel very easily. I also can't reach behind me very well and I can't reach down to my cup holders and side pockets :eek: If I drop anything on the floor, it might stay there until the flight is over!

There is a good article about panels and where your eyes are optimized. I found it very helpful when laying out my panel. Not sure where it is but I'll look for it.
 
All above posts are good advice. I will second the comments about mounting the tablet on the panel in front of the pilot. No matter what brand of tablet, none will be reliable enough to use as your primary flight display. You want that real estate reserved for your EFIS. Tablets are great for a lot of things but I am not at all willing to rely on it for safe flight.

I also agree about losing the glove box. That is wasted space that could be used for more useful instruments.

Compass is not really necessary if you have magnetometers, but if you still want it think about the windscreen bar if you have a slider.

I also say you can lose the Hobbs. Unless you intend to rent out your plane that is a pretty unnecessary instrument.

Ditto other comments about fuses/circuit breakers on the panel.
 
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Thanks again everybody! keep the ideas coming my way. Great advice crabandy- I will get rid of the compass and get the magnetometer option for the MGL, I'll move the boost pump (without light)...Is in the middle between the light switches and flaps a good spot? I'll get rid of the glove box and panel mounted fuses but where should the fuse blocks go so I can get to them semi easily? My idea of putting the starter breaker there is in case it ever pops I could press it back in if I ever had to restart the engine mid flight or in a remote area. Should I just not have any breakers on the panel at all? I am not using any wiring diagram... I was wondering how to figure out what size wires and what size fuses to use for different things. Is there a good diagram out there you know about for my application? I would love to see something that will make this easier. I'll get rid of the airspeed indicator and move the MGL a couple inches to the right so it is in direct center view for the pilot. I have no idea if the MGL has a boost pump warning light or not- it probably does because it seems like this tiny thing has EVERYTHING! By getting rid of the airspeed and compass I wont have any use for the instrument lights switch as well, so I guess that goes off too. My panel will be completely bare without the tablet: my idea was to use super strong Velcro to hold it on the panel so if I ever needed it on my leg (for bright sun conditions) I could just pull it off no big deal. What do you think about this idea? Should I use some sort of clip device instead, or is everybody adamant that it shouldn't be on the panel no matter what and that space should just be bare? I really want something on my panel besides the tiny MGL. I'll get an updated picture posted this evening on the changes to see what everybody thinks about the new look. The airspeed indicator and compass are some of the few things I already have so I guess they will be for sale on the forums soon (once I get a more finalized panel plan).

Crabandy= "At your rate of building you could be flying in another year to year and a half"-
Dang I thought I was a little further than half way by now but I guess the engine/instruments/wireing/cowling/prop/painting/seats takes a ton of time- oh well I love working on this thing most every day after my carpentry job anyway!
 
Sounds like you need a copy of the "aeroelectric connection" by Bob Nuckolls. The website is a little funky, I found the book well worth the $20 from www.bandc.biz. Every electrical question you asked is in the book along with a lot more theory diagrams etc. Which wiring diagram you choose will affect how many switches you'll need for master/EBUS/alt etc.

Most people who use fuses mount them on the subpanel somewhere. Some people mount them on hinged trays, and some crawl under for access.

I would hold off cutting any holes in the panel until everything is finalized, it was about the last major assembly I completed on mine. Ignition/carbed or fuel injected/stick grips/trims all change your panel in little ways.
 
Instrumentation should absolutely be the last systems to install prior to finalizing the build.

You mention you do not like the blank panel space with just the tiny MGL instrument and nothing else. My question is why are you going with this small EFIS? I know costs are always important and perhaps that is driving your decision. If so, then it is your plane and you need to build it how you want it. However you should consider everything you can think of when making decisions about how and why you choose the things you do for the airplane. My suggestion is that you should be using as much of that open real estate as you can with instruments that will provide you with the most information you can get. Since you have quite a bit of open space why not consider going bigger with the EFIS. The bigger display you are able to install the better you will be able to see and utilize the functionality of the EFIS.

Another thing I did not notice is a gps. I can only assume you anticipate using the Nexus 10 tablet for that capability. My suggestion would be to not use that tablet for any primary flight duties except as a backup. I would suggest installing a dedicated aviation GPS in your panel. You can easily mount any of the portable GPS's on your panel with either manufactured mounts or you can fabricate your own. In the pictures below you can see I mounted a Garmin 695 in the panel to the right of the pilot EFIS. I just don't like the instability that is inherent in all of the tablets out on the market. I use an iPad in my plane but it is only serving as a backup tool for navigation. One of the biggest complaints I have with the tablets is the difficulty seeing the screen due to low brightness and glare on the screen. Perhaps the Nexus 10 is better in that regard than the iPad.

For reference, here is a pic of my panel. I have been flying for 3.5 years behind it now.
panel%2520pic%2520large.JPG


During construction I spent many many many many hours planning and designing how it was to be laid out. I sat in the bare cockpit early on and while making airplane noises I visualized where I needed to have every switch and component that would ensure the most ergonomic position. Even so, once I was flying I still discovered some things that I should have positioned differently.

You asked about fuse locations. You cannot see it in this pic but I mounted a hinged panel underneath the panel on the passenger side. It is hinged on the sub panel and secured with Velcro to the bottom of the panel just under the passenger side EFIS. That panel holds the fuses. All I have to do is pull the panel free from the Velcro and I have access to the fuses.

Another thing that is not showing in the pic above is the mounting of my iPad. I used a RAM mount on the passenger side bracket where the windscreen frame attaches to the fuselage. The pic below is not very good quality but it shows this iPad location.
iPad%2520installation.jpg


I hope this info gives you some inspiration.

Live Long and Prosper!
 
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Here's a pic of my hinged fuse panel, probably would make it fixed next time. A lot of extra work went into making it hinge without pulling the wires, and provides marginal access. I used hinges on the panel and subpanel to attatch it, pulling the front hinge pin releases it to swing down.
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So here is my updated panel idea (pretty much just took everything you guys suggested off/ moved the boost pump/ centered the EFIS better/Added ALT air that I forgot the first time) What do you guys think now? I am trying to keep my panel pretty cheap as I don't have much spare $$. I was gonna use the tablet for GPS but what other more reliable cheap options are out there? The IFly is about $750 and that may be at the top end of my price range- that is why the tablet sprung to mind- less than $250. Fuses I guess I will put upside down between the panel and subpanel so I can get to them by sticking my head under the bottom of the panel
 
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Any of the older Garmin handhelds can be had fairly cheaply, along with a tablet will take you anywhere with more info than you need.

I'm starting to like your new layout, but the EFIS looks a little far left. If you sit in the seat (I used spare blankets and pillows to simulate) do your stare directly at it straight ahead? If not close your eyes look straight ahead then open your eyes look at a point on your panel and put the EFIS there.

Good luck!
 
panel

I think you are on the right track and I say put the tablet to the left of center and I-720 next to it in a panel mount that is turned upright in portrait that way later on if you add an EFIS you will have the space were the pad is just cut the hole I would move the engine monitor to the top of your radio stack with the radio and trans under it also buy a radio that has the intercom already in it.I would not put any switchs on left side only key switch and master toggle mount them on right side with breakers right under each switch from spruce about $4 each the push type I went ifr or I would have went the pad route with backup gps for vfr . In the extra space on left I would add extra pad for passenger or angle it to pilot .Anyway do it last as things change fast.
Tailwinds Bob
 
Suggestions

I like your idea of keeping it simple. I would however try to stick with aviation related gear as primary and use the tablet as secondary. If you can wait a few months, do whatever you can to get to Oshkosh for Airventure. Or, Sun n' fun in a couple of weeks. There you can see and touch everything. Things change very fast so wait as long as possible to pull the trigger.

Nice work, forge ahead.
 
Just one quick note, when my wife is getting cold, she tends to grab stuff and pull! I would move the alt air to the other side of the engine controls away from the cabin heat. Infact, I would move the cabin heat up to the panel away from anything else!

Just my .02
 
Just one quick note, when my wife is getting cold, she tends to grab stuff and pull! I would move the alt air to the other side of the engine controls away from the cabin heat. Infact, I would move the cabin heat up to the panel away from anything else!

Just my .02
if you look at my first pic in post #12 you can see I placed the cabin heat lever all the way to the right just under the passenger air vent. There is nothing else over there that a cold passenger might accidentally grab. This placement is one of the things I thought about during those many many many times of sitting in the cockpit thinking about where things should go.
 
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